Would there be demand for...

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Personally, I think Vox should be the ones to do it......I wish they'd do this....

Come out with a Tonelab rackmount unit that's voiced to go nicely with a tube power amp.

Since Vox has always made tube amps, unlike Line 6, they should make a matching tube power amp that is like a Mesa simulclass, only it'd have 4 EL-34's and 4 EL-84's. The preamp should be able to dial up variations of the two tube types, much like Mesa did with their Simulclass technology.

In addition, they should make a head version, and maybe a 2-12 combo.
A 1-12 may be too small to be able to house all of what I'm talking about.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

The Valvetronix series has a 12AX7 that actually acts as a power amp right?

Eh why not take it a step further and have 2 EL34s and 2 6L6s? US vs British

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

no... not realy.. at least not in the production sense. in the marketing sense absolutely, but then there is a line where its not dumbed down anymore, its just a ripoff.

in production its the same if they take a disk with 10 models, or a disk with 40 models. it takes exactly the same ammount of work.
but when it comes to marketing, more features is more $.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I meant cheaper for US dude. Look at how many people buy Spiders compared to Vettas or Flextones If they can market a spider that well (...) trust me they can do it with a spider + tube power amp.

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

you got a point..


now i go sleep

 

[jimpmiller]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Wouldn't something like that require more than one set of tubes to truely emulate the feel of the amp being modeled? I mean of course just SOME tubes will make it more powerfull sounding, but if you use a modeler as a preamp wouldnt it color your tone, or rather..discolor it. The tone would sound like a modeled tone..just amplified with tubes, which should just make it more powerfull..rather than adding the wanted feel..i would think, because your signal runs into the modeler first and gets its tone first.

but if you could make it work...id take 2

 

[Jazz Rock]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Unless some new tech is developed, I'm not sure I see the point tho. Still won't feel/play/sound like a real amp. There is a "disconnect" there with the digital technology. It's like your sound is created in this little teeny chip, and then just amplified...as opposed to the "signal" chain of a real pre-power amp and then speaker interaction. As I mentioned in the other thread...it sounds like a recording of the amp.
QUOTE]

+1... I plugged my v-ampinto my brand new LC15R valve amp and it just killed the sound of it. All the dynamics variations I discovered playing this amp just went up in smoke as soon as the v-amp filtered the sound. I experienced first hand the digital filtering that some of you described here.

Plugging the v-amp on this amp wasn't the original plot, but since I will need to wait a bit before getting an SFX03 (moneywise and legallywise as it seems) I thought I could try to get a distortion from the v-amp.
Problem is, you can't save as a preset the by-pass configuration. Thus, you can't have the pure amp sound, with maybe the addition of a nice little chorus effect, and than switch to a distortion of your taste... Unless there is a trick and would quite like to know about it.

So to come back to your point Pierre, and as already said by, you will need to find a way first to get the digital modeler to allow the valve amp to do its thing... Which might not be too easy to realise.

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

So to come back to your point Pierre, and as already said by, you will need to find a way first to get the digital modeler to allow the valve amp to do its thing... Which might not be too easy to realise.

well.. i think you'd need a couple of dif tubes 1st.

1 el34
1 6l6
1 kt88

for starters..

then let the modeler act as the preamp which models part of the gain stage (with a tube acting as the cliping diode, for a smoother breakup) and then hit the coresponding tube/pair/whatever and let it do its clean/gain magic

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Or it could just be a fairly transparent power stage, which if I understand well is not that hard to do now. The models on the modellers already include the sound, you just need the power then. Not more trademark tones.

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

well.. you just need something that sounds good and feels like a real amp

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Exactly. Hence my point. SS emulates preamp tubes fairly well, but it can't emulate poweramp distortion. With a tube poweramp, you'd get best of both worlds

 

[aleclee]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I CAN figure it out, but by simpler I mean with less options. To make the package cheaper

Don't you remember the DuoVerb? A lower-priced modeler with fewer options.

Those things were flying off the shelves.









NOT.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Wasn't the duoverb a cheaper Vetta, placed between the Flextone and Vetta, which allowed 2 amp sounds at once?

What I'm talking about here is an entirely different concept. It'd be something in the price range of the flextone, or maybe between the bigger spiders and the flex. If you put a POD XT preamp on it, it'd already be Vetta expensive, and I don't think many people would shell that, especially since the Vetta is already a very pro amp. What I'd be aiming for would be a giggable, versatile amp with a lot of different channels. Hell if they want they can shove in a full POD preamp in it, what the heck, but I was just saying that as an example for a particular market.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Exactly. Hence my point. SS emulates preamp tubes fairly well, but it can't emulate poweramp distortion. With a tube poweramp, you'd get best of both worlds

More expensive and less tonally flexible? Besides, the point of modeling (vs. SS) is, among other things, to model power section distortion. If you start overdriving a power section amplifying a modeler, I doubt you'll get the results you seek.

I definitely prefer tubes but believe that what you suggest is pretty conflicted.

• The cost of providing additional models is in developing them, not in the hardware. Since the models are already developed, to provide an amp with 6 models instead of 15 wouldn't really affect the production cost. Any savings the customer experienced with a "simpler" unit would be an artifact of marketing rather than economics.
• A tube power section would significantly add to the cost and weight of the amp. This seems contrary to your desire for a value-priced modeler.
• A tube power section would detract from the flexibility of the modeling. With a 6L6 power section, Marshally tones would suffer. With EL34s, Fendery tones wouldn't be as convincing. With an EL84 power section...you get the picture.

IMO, where modeling amps fall short is their footcontrollers. L6 and Vox create swiss army knife footboards that cost a goodly fraction of the amp's cost. Heck, even the little L6 FBV lists for $100. The FBV4 wasn't too costly but it's been discontinued.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I'm not looking for a value priced modeller. But for a value priced amp with tube sound, and the flexibility of modelling. Sure if it's the same exact price to get 50 models as to get 10, give me 50, no bother.
And yes I see what you mean with the power tubes adding to the tone. As I said on the earlier post, it'd need a fairly transparent power tube section. Apparently it does exist. For instance rackmount power amps are usually made to be fairly transparent.
I perfectly agree with the floorboard though. You can't use all the possibilities of such a complex thing as a POD without one. Hence the added benefits of a slightly less complex preamp: the floorboard needed is usually less expensive. Very basic rule of thumb though.

 

[Rich_T]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I think one of the big constraints is that digital pre-amp sounds do not mix well with power amp distortion. This is deomnstrated well when you crank an Atomic. It sounds like absolute ass, even with cab emulation turned off. The models are based on both the pre and power amps of the original amps, therefore further colouration from a tube power amp is going to change the character of the whole modeler.

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

well.. i think you'd need a couple of dif tubes 1st.

1 el34
1 6l6
1 kt88

for starters..

then let the modeler act as the preamp which models part of the gain stage (with a tube acting as the cliping diode, for a smoother breakup) and then hit the coresponding tube/pair/whatever and let it do its clean/gain magic

*cough*

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Well with the specs which I believe would work, it'd most likely be a class A/B power amp, and you'd NEED 2 power tubes with it. Now having 6 power tubes in it, I doubt it'd be the best idea. 4 could work though maybe? 2 EL84s and 26V6s, and for the higher powered versions, EL34s and 6L6s?