Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

[Akrin]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

Most of use simply grew up (and still grow up) listening to guitar tones produced by vacuum tube amplifiers. These tones are to this day unmimicable by even the most advanced digital processing, not to mention most SS amps.

Exactly. I think the tube guys don't dislike SS because it sounds 'bad', but because it doesn't sound like tubes.

I think a lot of really cool tones get passed over just because they don't sound like what some famous guy used in 1968.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

Given the advancement in amplifier technology making everthing more compact (lighter for amps, huh, huh ) and overdrives and cleans comparable to the tecnology that inspired it, why are most (especially the young ones born much after the utilization of tube emulating tech) hating, yes hating, on solid state amplifiers?

Because a lot of SS amps sound good the same way Barbie is pretty. I'm not saying they all suck because there are some great non-tube amps out there but too often there's a synthetic quality I perceive when playing one.

Seriously, IMO the difference between a the really good SS amps and the really good tube amps is more a function of feel rather than of timbre. SS amps don't "give" the way a tube amp does. I played for over a decade before owning a tube amp but when I finally had the budget to get one, I was amazed at my amp's feel and response relative to my SS stuff. In my experience with modeling amps, latency is as big an issue as tone. It really messes with the feel and definitely detracts from my performance. The good news is that DMAs seem to be improving in latency but I think it'll be quite a while before they can get it down to the point where it's not perceivable.

The flip side of this argument is that there are plenty of tube amps out there that don't work (for me) as well as their nice SS/DMA counterparts. If a non-tube amp gets you what you're looking for, don't let anyone else's preferences keep you from picking the right tool. I'm quite often the nutty guy who suggests looking at SS/DMA when someone asks "What tube amp should I get?". FWIW, I tend to use a POD or MicroCube for practice purposes because I don't get that tubey feel at practice volume.

Good tone is where you find it but that implies that you have to look.

 

[wixedmords]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

Most people have enough to take care with just getting themselves to play the guitar regularly.

Playing a non-tube amp is fine. Focus on other things.

But, if you run across a great deal on an "old timer amp", I am but an IM away.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

different strokes and all that.

at the end of the day, most folks don't care if you hate tubes! leaves more for the rest of us!

:fingersx: :fingersx: :laugh2:

I have 5 amps...... all of them are tube. I had a SS amp years back and I thought it sounded pretty good until I brought home my Super Reverb. My intent was to A/B them..... but there was no point. The SS amp couldn't cut it by comparison.

I think it has to do with the primary function you want the amp to perform. If clean tones are what you are after I think SS amps lack the warmth and chime that tubes do. IF you want full blown distortion they seem to do that pretty well.

As far as the weight issue. Most SS amps are much lighter mainly because of cheaper cabinets rather than the weight of the chassis. If you have a plywood cab, vrs say solid pine....... Thats where the weight difference is. THe chassis only represents a small percentage of the total weight (with combos).

 

[BluesGuyJ]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

Nothing I have come across can beat my Mesa cranked. But a lot can beat it turned down.

'nough said.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

Seriously, IMO the difference between a the really good SS amps and the really good tube amps is more a function of feel rather than of timbre. SS amps don't "give" the way a tube amp does. I played for over a decade before owning a tube amp but when I finally had the budget to get one, I was amazed at my amp's feel and response relative to my SS stuff. In my experience with modeling amps, latency is as big an issue as tone. It really messes with the feel and definitely detracts from my performance

Amen Bro!

The diff between digital and even a "standard" SS amp is big enough for me. I did the modeller thing for a year...yes I could get some phenomenal cranked amp tones at vol levels a tube amp could never hope to replicate...but the glitching and lack of response is so apparent once you plug back into a "real" amp (tube, hybrid or SS...tubes obviously being the best of the three)

There's some great SS stuff out there that does a phenomenal job of emulating good cranked tube amps...Rid's Plexitone is just incredible..and I'm really impressed with my marshall guv'nor too using it to supply 1/2 the gain on my hybrid amp...it's a very convincing simulation.

But I don't think anything (in my lifetime anyway) will be able to duplicate every single quality of a great cranked Marshall Fender, Vox, Bogner, whatever. And as Tim said...for the majority of people, tubes are the benchmark.

If someone could come up with a modeller that sounds and FEELS *exactly* like a cranked metalface at bedroom levels...I'd be all over that $hit! :bigthumb:

 

[JeffB]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

...........

BTW..for curiosities sake...how much time have you logged with cranked tube amps..like an 800 1/2 stack or a Bassman or something? And in what applications (i.e. at a gig? turned down low for practice, etc?)

 

[ErikH]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

As far as the weight issue. Most SS amps are much lighter mainly because of cheaper cabinets rather than the weight of the chassis. If you have a plywood cab, vrs say solid pine....... Thats where the weight difference is. THe chassis only represents a small percentage of the total weight (with combos).

You forgot one major difference. Them HUGE input and output transformers in tube amps that weigh about 10-15lbs. each. You don't see them in SS amps, at least not that big.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

The new Randall stuff have to be cool.
Many Metal Heads are fan of Dime's tone.It was always SS!!!and i don't like it so much but i cannotsay it does not sound "organic".Still ,i will go wit ENGL or DIEZEL.I like the feeling,and if you like the feeling off SS.why not?

 

[Diego]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

I have SS just because I can't afford decent tube stuff with my budget. But I'm pretty sure that's where I'm heading to. I tested a Marshall DSL50 at a very high volume level a few months ago. Felt for the first time that 'power amp saturation' thing I had been reading about for years. In that moment I knew I was sold on getting a tube amplifier someday. Still I am.

However, that doesn't mean I won't settle on something SS that really sounds like what I'm after. I'm really liking my Cube 60 by now... I'll probably get a 2x12 cab for it. If I like it, I'll stay there for a long time.

 

[Dirt123]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

Most people here have heard me sing the praises of both tube amps and modeling amps. I'm pretty fanatical about amplifiers, and have owned or played hundreds of different ones.


The downside - Using small inexpensive components, small cheap pots, feeble switches, lousy cabinetry, and IC chips makes the overall quality equal to a TV, Computer, or Radio. This means it's more likely to experience glitches, component failure, and a lifetime of 2-8 years. Don't forget that a unit like this will deteriorate when being shuffled gig to gig, and being pushed across bumpy parking lots. Instead of a burned fuse or tube, failure is likely to be anything on the cheap circuit board inside...

.

Truth. I've had both types. I had a Yamaha SS twin in the late '70, rolled it down the stairs once. Did braek a pot. When my roomate fixed it, we installed better pots with flying leads (got rid of the board mouted pots). I ran that thing ragged for better than 10 years.

On the other hand,I was checking out a used SS Fender recently, & noticed that the pots were loose. All of them. Turns out they don't even use nuts on the pots, they are all mounted to the PC board, & sticking through holes in the chassis. On A FENDER for crying out loud. THAT'S why I use a Boogie now. An old one. It sounds good, sure, but the mofo is built.

You can build any (SS digital, or tube) amp one of 2 ways, good or not. There are a lot of cheap tube amps out there, living on borrowed time.

 

[RevJToad]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

Ya know, I've been searching of late for a SS amp that does what I want, and weighs less than my tube behemoths. The closest I've come is the Roland Jazz Chorus, which is just a nice loud clean amp, ready for molding by pedals. But, it's just as heavy, and about equally as loud, and not quite as nice sounding, as my Twin, so that kind of puts paid to that.

My only real experience with modelling is my Pod 2.0, which is ok, but unsatisfactory on most of the sounds. But that was five years ago, easily, so they've probably come a long way since then.

So here's a question back at ya: What are the really good SS amps? I ask this in all earnestness, and say in equal earnestness that my experience of SS is limited, but almost universally bad, at least as far as distortion goes. A clean amp is easy to do - an amp-based distortion that sounds nice, not so much, in my experience.

I actually had an old 70s Marshall mosfet amp offered to me for $600 not too long ago, and I was considering it, but I don't know enough about SS Marshalls to know whether it was worth that much. I never tried it, unfortunately...

 

[MikeS]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

At bedroom levels, I have never gotten tones out of tubes that inspire me to keep playing. For that reason, I think that modelling is an absolutley wonderful thing. I can also plug right into my computer and record ideas without having to mic cabs and play with sliders on boards, etc. The ease of use with modeling is a beautiful thing. But for a jam situation, I'd much rather have the fullness and warmth of tube amplification (just so long as I can crank it).

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

I go hybrid. Tubes are a pain in the butt and unless you have tons of money, don't sound good.

Uhm... I don't really have tons of money... but I have a good sounding tube amp :fingersx:

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

I can also plug right into my computer and record ideas without having to mic cabs and play with sliders on boards, etc.

It's called the emulated lineout on my amp

 

[MikeS]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

It's called the emulated lineout on my amp

What amp are we talking about?

Regardless, it still ain't as easy as pluging the guitar into the computer.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

What amp are we talking about?

Regardless, it still ain't as easy as pluging the guitar into the computer.

Marshall TSL... it has an XLR line out with speaker emulation.

And I actually tried that direct plugin' with my bass when I was a total beginner

 

[ErikH]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

It's called the emulated lineout on my amp

With those, they still require some external processing to sound decent. That line out is just an out from the preamp through a bunch of circuitry to "emulate" the sound of a cab. You still need to put a load on the amp when using those outs unlike a modeller where you just plug it in to the mixer and go and you just hear it through the monitors or headphones.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

With those, they still require some external processing to sound decent. That line out is just an out from the preamp through a bunch of circuitry to "emulate" the sound of a cab. You still need to put a load on the amp when using those outs unlike a modeller where you just plug it in to the mixer and go and you just hear it through the monitors or headphones.

It's still cool Although I honestly havent tried it out yet... cause I lack an XLR cable and a decent soundcard
And if I had the TSL100 I could actually mute the speaker output and only use the line out...

 

[ErikH]

Re: Wow. I have no respect for what is sacred.

It's still cool Although I honestly havent tried it out yet... cause I lack an XLR cable and a decent soundcard
And if I had the TSL100 I could actually mute the speaker output and only use the line out...

My 2100 MkIII has the same line out, only 1/4". I can tell ya, it doesn't sound the same.

On the TSL100, does it actually mute the speaker outs when you connect the emulated out or is it a separate option?