Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Anybody plunked down for one of these yet?
Zephyr Silver
- Thread starter Zhangliqun
- Start date
Evan Skopp
SDUGF Founder
Re: Zephyr Silver
Jeremy has listened to them. Maybe he'll chime in.
Jeremy has listened to them. Maybe he'll chime in.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Zephyr Silver
I wonder what does a 5-lb. spool of silver wire cost....
Did I say that outside my head??? Oh crap.
I wonder what does a 5-lb. spool of silver wire cost....
Did I say that outside my head??? Oh crap.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Zephyr Silver
Can we get back to the OP question, please?
Has anyone been so bold as to pay MSRP on a pair of these babies? More importantly, does the twenty one day return policy apply? :naughty:
Can we get back to the OP question, please?
Has anyone been so bold as to pay MSRP on a pair of these babies? More importantly, does the twenty one day return policy apply? :naughty:
IanBallard
New member
Re: Zephyr Silver
I've been a "working pro" musician for years and I can't imagine putting $500 into a pickup that may not be 5 times "better-sounding" than a good, production pickup or CS model.
They are a neat concept but you're not going to find a lot of "working pros" that are going to plunk down that kind of money. In fact, I would see that the "Tone professor" bedroom guys who make a good living doing IT work, probably would be more likely to buy these than a guy who gigs 5 nights a week.
I've been a "working pro" musician for years and I can't imagine putting $500 into a pickup that may not be 5 times "better-sounding" than a good, production pickup or CS model.
They are a neat concept but you're not going to find a lot of "working pros" that are going to plunk down that kind of money. In fact, I would see that the "Tone professor" bedroom guys who make a good living doing IT work, probably would be more likely to buy these than a guy who gigs 5 nights a week.
Re: Zephyr Silver
Well only time will tell who is buying these, my vote still goes to a high paid guitarist who does a lot of session work.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Zephyr Silver
Haven't heard any criticism, but then again, I've just now heard of them. Too much money? The wire is SILVER for crap's sake. Whaddaya want?
Haven't heard any criticism, but then again, I've just now heard of them. Too much money? The wire is SILVER for crap's sake. Whaddaya want?
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Zephyr Silver
They Zephyrs are a marketing gimmick. First of all, silver isn't even that expensive. Silver has gone up a lot in the last few years. It used to cost about $11 per oz. five years ago, but now it's about $35 per oz. Compared to gold, which is $1500 per oz., silver is relatively cheap.
Let's say that Seymour Duncan factory workers are generously paid at $20 per hour, and let's say it takes an average of 2 hours to wind and assemble a pickup. Let's say that each pickup requires an average of 3 oz of silver which equates to about $105. Then you add bobbins, baseplates, etc... which migh cost $7. Lastly, you have to factor in marketing costs, etc... and that tacks on another $5 per pickup.
There you have a pickup that costs $40 in labor, $12 in materials and marketing, $105 in silver. That equates to a pickup that costs $167 to produce. If Seymour Duncan doubled the price and sold the pickup for $334, that would be an outstanding profit. Those pickups are not priced at $334, no, they're much more than that.
Now I'm throwing figures out there that are padded. It probably costs about $110 maximum for each pickup. Double the cost of manufacturing price is a very hefty profit. Dealers would be lucky to make $20 per pickup on average. Subtract dealer profit from dealer cost and Seymour Duncan makes almost $150 per pickup.
Seymour Duncan could have had silver stockpiles from 4 years ago which means that silver would have actually costed them 1/3 less. I think the prices are severely padded. I'm not claiming to know the actual costs involved or what Seymour Duncan invests, but I'm very familiar with manufacturing.
It seems to me that the Zephyr is Seymour Duncan's attempt at being the Dumble of pickups. I'm skeptical.
I'd rather see Seymour Duncan say "well sell more pickups to guitar manufacturers, Guitar Centers, etc... in the world than anyone else and we've become very wealthy doing it. Now let's lower some prices and make our great pickups more accessible to the average musician. We are going to make our production line of pickups all the same price. Now the Full Shred will cost the same as a JB." I honestly don't care about more ridiculously priced pickups. They can't possibly sound better than any quality production or custom shop model.
The whole idea of these pickups being geared toward the working musician is B.S. Most musicians I know have a hard time scraping up enough money to retube their amps. They're not going to be spending $500-1000 per pickup. If you want to market to the average working musician, you have to make it a realistic price that the average working musician can afford.
I don't know any local musician who makes in excess of $80,000 per year. I know a band who gigs every day and does very large venues every weekend none of those guys clear more than $40,000 per year. They aren't spending $1000 on a set of pickups.
Good one. LOL
They Zephyrs are a marketing gimmick. First of all, silver isn't even that expensive. Silver has gone up a lot in the last few years. It used to cost about $11 per oz. five years ago, but now it's about $35 per oz. Compared to gold, which is $1500 per oz., silver is relatively cheap.
Let's say that Seymour Duncan factory workers are generously paid at $20 per hour, and let's say it takes an average of 2 hours to wind and assemble a pickup. Let's say that each pickup requires an average of 3 oz of silver which equates to about $105. Then you add bobbins, baseplates, etc... which migh cost $7. Lastly, you have to factor in marketing costs, etc... and that tacks on another $5 per pickup.
There you have a pickup that costs $40 in labor, $12 in materials and marketing, $105 in silver. That equates to a pickup that costs $167 to produce. If Seymour Duncan doubled the price and sold the pickup for $334, that would be an outstanding profit. Those pickups are not priced at $334, no, they're much more than that.
Now I'm throwing figures out there that are padded. It probably costs about $110 maximum for each pickup. Double the cost of manufacturing price is a very hefty profit. Dealers would be lucky to make $20 per pickup on average. Subtract dealer profit from dealer cost and Seymour Duncan makes almost $150 per pickup.
Seymour Duncan could have had silver stockpiles from 4 years ago which means that silver would have actually costed them 1/3 less. I think the prices are severely padded. I'm not claiming to know the actual costs involved or what Seymour Duncan invests, but I'm very familiar with manufacturing.
It seems to me that the Zephyr is Seymour Duncan's attempt at being the Dumble of pickups. I'm skeptical.
I'd rather see Seymour Duncan say "well sell more pickups to guitar manufacturers, Guitar Centers, etc... in the world than anyone else and we've become very wealthy doing it. Now let's lower some prices and make our great pickups more accessible to the average musician. We are going to make our production line of pickups all the same price. Now the Full Shred will cost the same as a JB." I honestly don't care about more ridiculously priced pickups. They can't possibly sound better than any quality production or custom shop model.
The whole idea of these pickups being geared toward the working musician is B.S. Most musicians I know have a hard time scraping up enough money to retube their amps. They're not going to be spending $500-1000 per pickup. If you want to market to the average working musician, you have to make it a realistic price that the average working musician can afford.
I don't know any local musician who makes in excess of $80,000 per year. I know a band who gigs every day and does very large venues every weekend none of those guys clear more than $40,000 per year. They aren't spending $1000 on a set of pickups.
Good one. LOL
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marvelous_seven
New member
Re: Zephyr Silver
I guess the price can be seen as Duncan's "Our pickups is worth twice the price those boutique true-vintage, scatterwound, handmade, and unbalanced coils pickups everyone get fussy about" mentality.
Hell,there are always gear snob who buy this kinda thing so I guess why I should bother with it.
If I had the cash to buy two or three sets of those I'd rather buy all Duncan production line pickups for review and information purpose. Then I'd sell all the ones that not suit my taste and order an ultimate set of pickups from Custom Shop without all bells and whistles of Zephyr,and be happier ever after that way.
But I guess I'm not gonna love playing guitars and musics if I spend my life just trying pickups. LOL
I guess the price can be seen as Duncan's "Our pickups is worth twice the price those boutique true-vintage, scatterwound, handmade, and unbalanced coils pickups everyone get fussy about" mentality.
Hell,there are always gear snob who buy this kinda thing so I guess why I should bother with it.
If I had the cash to buy two or three sets of those I'd rather buy all Duncan production line pickups for review and information purpose. Then I'd sell all the ones that not suit my taste and order an ultimate set of pickups from Custom Shop without all bells and whistles of Zephyr,and be happier ever after that way.
But I guess I'm not gonna love playing guitars and musics if I spend my life just trying pickups. LOL
LtKojak
New member
J
Jessie's ghost
Guest
Re: Zephyr Silver
You seem to be leaving out the dealer's part in this equation. If Seymour Duncan sold them to a dealer at $334, it would make sense. You posted something about dealers making $20 on a pickup like this? The humbuckers retail at $595.95 each. Who's going to be happy making $20 on a $600 retail product?
http://www.seymourduncan.com/newproducts/zephyr-silver-pickups.php
I love watching people try to overthink the economics of a product. There's usually a lot of nonsense involved, as well as the ever-amusing mistake of confusing gross margin with profit.
You seem to be leaving out the dealer's part in this equation. If Seymour Duncan sold them to a dealer at $334, it would make sense. You posted something about dealers making $20 on a pickup like this? The humbuckers retail at $595.95 each. Who's going to be happy making $20 on a $600 retail product?
http://www.seymourduncan.com/newproducts/zephyr-silver-pickups.php
I love watching people try to overthink the economics of a product. There's usually a lot of nonsense involved, as well as the ever-amusing mistake of confusing gross margin with profit.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Zephyr Silver
I have a friend who owns a music shop that sells several brands of pickups including Seymour Duncan so I know that dealers make very little on each pickup. If you buy a box of 10 pickups and shipping costs you $10, then that's $1 that dealers have to subtract from their profits. The key to making money selling pickups is the volume of sales. I guarantee you the average profit per pickup is less than $20, and probably less than $15.
Even if dealers could make $50 per Zephyr (which I doubt), they would be extremely lucky to sell one set per month. Besides, dealers aren'g going to be stocking $500-1000 pickups on their shelves when they can buy a dozen for the same price.
There's no such thing as "overthinking economics." It's common sense and anyone who has 1/2 a brain can figure out whether something is worth it or not. Put simply, the Zephyrs aren't going to contribute anythin special to your tone that a good production pickup and great tube amp will produce. It's just not worth it. If you want to simplify your economics, then go ahead and spend $1000 on a Zephyr. Maybe your can install it in your Brazillian rosewood PRS and play it through your Dumble.
You've already proven to be obtuse in your thinking so I'm not surprised that you have to inject little comments like this. It just shows your lack of knowledge of manufacturing and marketing.
I have a friend who owns a music shop that sells several brands of pickups including Seymour Duncan so I know that dealers make very little on each pickup. If you buy a box of 10 pickups and shipping costs you $10, then that's $1 that dealers have to subtract from their profits. The key to making money selling pickups is the volume of sales. I guarantee you the average profit per pickup is less than $20, and probably less than $15.
Even if dealers could make $50 per Zephyr (which I doubt), they would be extremely lucky to sell one set per month. Besides, dealers aren'g going to be stocking $500-1000 pickups on their shelves when they can buy a dozen for the same price.
There's no such thing as "overthinking economics." It's common sense and anyone who has 1/2 a brain can figure out whether something is worth it or not. Put simply, the Zephyrs aren't going to contribute anythin special to your tone that a good production pickup and great tube amp will produce. It's just not worth it. If you want to simplify your economics, then go ahead and spend $1000 on a Zephyr. Maybe your can install it in your Brazillian rosewood PRS and play it through your Dumble.
You've already proven to be obtuse in your thinking so I'm not surprised that you have to inject little comments like this. It just shows your lack of knowledge of manufacturing and marketing.
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J
Jessie's ghost
Guest
Re: Zephyr Silver
Are you talking about an average, $80-$100 pickup here? And are you talking about gross margin or profit?
I don't expect to see a lot of dealers stocking these, either, but that's not the point. What I'm getting at is, if they make, say, $15 on an average pickup, it's not out of line to expect they might make five times that on a pickup that costs… five times that.
They're not worth it to me, either, but I bet both of us own fairly unnecessary things that someone making less money might look at and say, "Wow. That's just nuts! What a waste of money. Definitely not worth it. What kind of idiot buys overpriced crap like that?"
Are you talking about an average, $80-$100 pickup here? And are you talking about gross margin or profit?
I don't expect to see a lot of dealers stocking these, either, but that's not the point. What I'm getting at is, if they make, say, $15 on an average pickup, it's not out of line to expect they might make five times that on a pickup that costs… five times that.
They're not worth it to me, either, but I bet both of us own fairly unnecessary things that someone making less money might look at and say, "Wow. That's just nuts! What a waste of money. Definitely not worth it. What kind of idiot buys overpriced crap like that?"
Evan Skopp
SDUGF Founder
Re: Zephyr Silver
I would agree with the first statement but not, necessarily, with the second. Where are your overhead costs? And it seems you're assuming the cost for silver wire is about the same as the market cost for silver. You might want to check that.
And you realize these are sold though the channel, not direct to end users, right?
I would agree with the first statement but not, necessarily, with the second. Where are your overhead costs? And it seems you're assuming the cost for silver wire is about the same as the market cost for silver. You might want to check that.
And you realize these are sold though the channel, not direct to end users, right?
DarkMatter
Unprofessional Toneologist
Re: Zephyr Silver
With regards to the cost of manufacturing, you left out the bi-metal poles, cryogenic treatment, and glass fiberfill bobbins. Also, silver may not be expensive, but I bet making coated silver wire is. These pickups are best marketed towards someone looking for a new sound I would think.
Edit. Evan beat me to the wire point. Im too slow.
With regards to the cost of manufacturing, you left out the bi-metal poles, cryogenic treatment, and glass fiberfill bobbins. Also, silver may not be expensive, but I bet making coated silver wire is. These pickups are best marketed towards someone looking for a new sound I would think.
Edit. Evan beat me to the wire point. Im too slow.
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Evan Skopp
SDUGF Founder
Re: Zephyr Silver
That's true, DarkMatter. The bi-metallic poles are very expensive to make. The the cryo treatment is done at an outside lab.
That's true, DarkMatter. The bi-metallic poles are very expensive to make. The the cryo treatment is done at an outside lab.