Problems Playing Through the PA....

[ehdwuld]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

my GNX has similar issues
it has to do with the "Speaker Simulation"
I dont know how Line 6 employs it
but on mine
if going into a real speaker
you have to turn off speaker simulation used for headphones and direct recording
it compresses and adds speaker "dynamics" to the output

turn it off or on
or whatever it is now swap it to the other

[some_dude]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

Now, that's what I call an altar.



Problem solved.

[cronnin]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

Just put all the EQ, volume, gain knobs at noon, and tell the mixer guy to do the same.
That's a good starting point

Maybe those speakers are placed high up and you don't get high frequencies attenuated in the mass of people like it used to be before?
Change cab simulation on your Flextone.
Change the mic position from direct to angled, if your FX has that?

[guitfiddle]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

Our monitor's are loud - loud enough that I can't hear the drums acoustically. They're not behind plexiglass either. We also have a full orchestra onstage with us. When I say quiet, I mean that I want my guitar's volume coming from the monitors and not my amp.

That's loud for monitors. I usually only like enough to double my amp in my ears.

I mean, if there is an eq/input level problem in the monitors, it's gonna be exagerated by the volume, and just maybe you'd get rid of it by running the amp hot, with less of the offending monitor eq.

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

my GNX has similar issues
it has to do with the "Speaker Simulation"
I dont know how Line 6 employs it
but on mine
if going into a real speaker
you have to turn off speaker simulation used for headphones and direct recording
it compresses and adds speaker "dynamics" to the output

turn it off or on
or whatever it is now swap it to the other

I don't know how to turn my speaker simulator off. I guess Line 6 calls it cabinet simulation. I'll have to research that.

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

Okay, I found out how to turn cab simulation off. You have to do it through the Line 6 Edit interface.

[cronnin]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

Nice, try some other cabs, mics, and axis positions.

[J Moose]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

I guess I have let the wrong idea get into everybody's head. Our monitor's are loud - loud enough that I can't hear the drums acoustically. They're not behind plexiglass either. We also have a full orchestra onstage with us. When I say quiet, I mean that I want my guitar's volume coming from the monitors and not my amp.

If the stage volume is that loud, why would you release total control over YOUR sound and level to the engineers? Why not use the amp the way amps are intended to be used? As a monitor for the player.

Or am I missing something?

If you have the option to be in full control, and you willingly relinquish that control then you have no right to ***** about anything.

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

If the stage volume is that loud, why would you release total control over YOUR sound and level to the engineers? Why not use the amp the way amps are intended to be used? As a monitor for the player.

Or am I missing something?

If you have the option to be in full control, and you willingly relinquish that control then you have no right to ***** about anything.

No, you're right. But what I'm trying to do is eliminate the extreme brightness, bad distortion and squealy feedback I'm getting.

[ParameterMan]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

It's really hard to guess what might be going on without hearing it for myself, but hey! this is the internet! Musings:

It does sound like you may be clipping the preamp on the board. The board ought to be able to take the line level signal from the XLR outs on the back of the Flextone without distorting. And if it can't for some bizarre reason, the sound guy should be letting you know. Or, it could be extra treble, either from the board or the monitor rig, revealing the grit that normally hides under a smooth high-end response.

The monitor setup on stage is undoubtedly EQ'ed to provide a clear and crisp sound for unprocessed vocals, so a nice bright and grindy guitar sound is going to be completely over the top. Unfortunately, if they have the monitor auxes pre-EQ, any changes sound dude makes to fatten it up for FOH will be unheard on stage.

This is the reason I gave up on digital amp sims direct into the system. A goodly part of the magic I hear in a guitar sound is the smoothing provided by the speaker, cab, and the air it's pushing. Without that, the sound system becomes half of the guitar rig, and every preset must be dialed in with the system turned up as loud as it's going to be on zero hour. Even then, it's really hard to get a smooth sound. Cab simulation algorithms are getting better, and I've heard some pretty respectable sounds from Line6 gear plugged straight in, but it takes collaboration with the sound guy.

Even with cab simulation, the direct sound from a Flextone combo will be harder and more abrasive than the sound from the speaker. With a good quality system the difference will be painfully obvious.

There's also the chance that(like most churches I've played in) the sound guy is completely asleep at the wheel with regard to guitars.

[SOLO GUITAR STEWIE]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

You are correct that the sound guys at my church arent paid. Heres where the issue comes in.
The church was built, set up, and run with piano / organ for so long, thats what the sound guys know. Add in amps and drums and they arent comfortable anymore.
So we run NO amps. Sound is great at our church. I have no issues with it.
Main worship center we use pods, and electronic drums.
Youth worship we have acoustic drums, and run our amps. Balance out the amps and drums, use the PA for vocals and acoustic.

yup this is the same transition at my church...going from organ only to
a full "rock" band amps and all!! I just picked up a POD 2.0 so I can go direct to solve a lot of issues at the church sound wise....I will be testing it out in the house on friday....should be fine, I used my old PODXT through the house and it sounded awesome

[J Moose]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

No, you're right. But what I'm trying to do is eliminate the extreme brightness, bad distortion and squealy feedback I'm getting.

Drop past the music store & plunk $100 on a sennheiser 609. Doesn't even need a stand... just hang it over the amp off the handle. Tell the engineers to take that signal & don't put it in YOUR monitor.

Roughly 90-95% of the time, monitors are setup and EQ'd to get the vocals crystal clear and as loud as possible before the onset of feedback. That can sometimes come at the expense of ideal tonality on other instruments, especially if they've ripped a lot of the low-end & low-mids away.

Personally on a big stage, or any stage I really hate the guitar coming back at me from the monitors. Always sounds funky... I'd rather run the amp hot and rely on that, doesn't matter who's at the monitor desk. The B3 player or drummer needs it in their wedge? Cool... no problem. Just don't blast it back at me!

[ratherdashing]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

Drop past the music store & plunk $100 on a sennheiser 609. Doesn't even need a stand... just hang it over the amp off the handle. Tell the engineers to take that signal & don't put it in YOUR monitor.

Roughly 90-95% of the time, monitors are setup and EQ'd to get the vocals crystal clear and as loud as possible before the onset of feedback. That can sometimes come at the expense of ideal tonality on other instruments, especially if they've ripped a lot of the low-end & low-mids away.

Personally on a big stage, or any stage I really hate the guitar coming back at me from the monitors. Always sounds funky... I'd rather run the amp hot and rely on that, doesn't matter who's at the monitor desk. The B3 player or drummer needs it in their wedge? Cool... no problem. Just don't blast it back at me!

I agree with all of this, especially the part about the e609. They're excellent mics and well worth the relatively low cost.

[eschoendorff]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

We're cool-
Sometimes I forget that others don't have my knowledge and experience.
I agree there are some tone deaf FOH worship engineers out there, but hey, they are usually volunteers, trying to serve the best way they can.
I'm lucky that I'm paid and furnished insurance, for doing something I love, and in some small way, I'm providing a ministry. We also do a TV broadcast, so I really have to have my game face on.
I just get tired of people always blaming the FOH engineer for everything, when often it isn't his fault, or he isn't aware of the problem- I know I'm very busy, I have 8 choir mics, up to 11 wireless mics, the podium, the piano and organ, and any Cd's or tapes to be used, an Orchestra, etc. all the while, with 3 monitor mixes, the house mix and the TV mix.

You should be able to go to the engineer, tell him what you want to hear, how you want to hear it, and any suggestions you might have. He then should be able to tell you what he can and can't do. I also highly recommend he get a copy of the Yamaha book about audio for worship.
If you approach him in Christian love, and just keep the theme that you are trying to have the best worship experience available to the audience, and that all of you are doing God's calling.

Cheers, brother.

[bungalowbill]

Re: Problems Playing Through the PA....

Butch...I would mic the amp and turn down my guitar in the monitor as Moose said....I would also try to get the soundman to set your EQ at the board as flat as possible without any effects from the board. I have had many headaches from people putting on effects at the board that were set for vocals..... too much reverb and or delay and will ruin a decent guitar tone.

Tell him you want it flat and dry and control the EQ and effects from your end.