Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

[serizawa]

From 1980 in my local music shop. It's a pretty decent price and I'm planning on bringing my Jaguar and 335 down to play it this weekend.

Don't know too much about these amps, other than that they're obscenely loud. Which proves to be somewhat of a problem, as I don't have a band as of yet.

Is there any way I can reduce the wattage either by pulling tubes or getting a sort of attenuator?

I don't plan on using the amp's natural overdrive (because that's mostly impossible) as I'm mostly a fuzz/distortion box kinda guy.

So clue me in, guys! Is this amp even worth getting?

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

I hate to sound like a jerk or a snob or whatever else other things some guys might call me but.

I wouldn't give even $200 for a 1980 Twin Reverb...

By 1980 they were ultra linear, 135 watt amps with a master volume but in junk cabs with crappy speakers so not only are they loud and heavy but they also have no real tone to speak of and 30+ years down the road those junk cabs are getting ready to fall apart.

[MetalManiac]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

I hate to sound like a jerk or a snob or whatever else other things some guys might call me but.

I wouldn't give even $200 for a 1980 Twin Reverb...

By 1980 they were ultra linear, 135 watt amps with a master volume but in junk cabs with crappy speakers so not only are they loud and heavy but they also have no real tone to speak of and 30+ years down the road those junk cabs are getting ready to fall apart.

+1 TIMES A BILLION

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Another negative toward the amp in question...Pass on it!

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Yup, another negative. I would pass on it unless you really like the clean tone they have. Some people love it, most people think they're overly bright and harsh.

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Yup, another negative. I would pass on it unless you really like the clean tone they have. Some people love it, most people think they're overly bright and harsh.

Harsh and hi fi sounding..All wrong for great guitar tone! Also a lack of the nice harmonics that earlier Fender amps had...

[MetalManiac]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Harsh and hi fi sounding..All wrong for great guitar tone! Also a lack of the nice harmonics that earlier Fender amps had...

I take umbrance to lumping the words 'harsh' and 'hi-fi' togehter. I like some solid state amps that arent spikey or brittle ( read 'harsh'), but yet have a hi-fi sound, which is thick, but clear and very present without much warmth aka as dark color .
A bad tube amp can actually be more harsh and glaring, which is what i belive you meant by Hi-Fi than a good "hi-Fi" solid state or tube amp.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Yes, im gonna call you out TGWIF, MM and Stradeluxer and im gonna put in a vote for the twin that the OP is lookign at:

The cork sniffer's criticisms of late 70s early 80s fender twins is that they have ultralinear transformers - no big deal they just give you more headroom - which is what twins are designed to do. They are not made to break up at club volumes. NOt everyone wants overdrive.
As far as preferred tone goes, a couple of cap replacements and UL twins can sound epic. Hell- even blackface twins need cap replacements after all these years. Mine is a 1967 non master. It sure as hell needed it. I like the brown mallory caps, but its cool to have some mallorys in one channel (lets say the reverb channel) and some orange spragues in the dry channel for an even cleaner more hifi tone.

Yes the speakers are crap - easily fixed with something better, but there are lots of nice fender amps with crappy speakers! lol. IMHO a lot of the replacement/upgrade stuff eminence are making now sound just as good and in many cases better than their vintage counterparts. The current fender twins have Jensen c12ks's. They are okay, but nothing special - id probbaly swap them out too.

As far as junk cabs go...glassman just explained that even blackface fenders came with particle board baffles, so thats a moot point.

So...what does that leave us with?
I powerful, clean amp. A more powerful, cleaner fender twin than earlier models. There is nothing wrong at all with 135's. They are pretty damn nice amps. A lot pf players are just afraid of them because they are clean, and therefore you cant hide anywhere. What you play is exactly what you get back. If you suck, you suck, but if you have good touch and nuance, an amp like that can repay you in spades. Not every player in the world wants overdrive.
Here is some info about 135 twins:
http://fenderguru.com/amps/twin-reverb
here is a bit on possible mods:
http://torresengineering.stores.yaho...watfentwi.html



To the OP: there's no need to reduce wattage man. Volume does not equal watts. leave all 4 tubes in place. The trick with twins is in your choice of speakers. Some speakers have high spl's (sound pressure levels) and some are less efficient, so a less efficient speaker will handle the wattage of the twin, but not blow your ear drums out.

The other thing about speakers is their eq curve. Some speakers (like the jensens or the more modern equivalents from weber etc) have a bright cutting tone. Treble takes less wattage to amplify than bass (which requires more anergy to shift the speaker cone) so a bright speaker can become painfully loud. That was all fine and good back when it was an amps job to be heard above a drummer and to cut thru the band, but not so good in this day and age where we tend to mic up our amps. So instead of looking for ways to cut the wattage, look for a darker speaker with less efficiency.
My personal favourite for a twin is the Eminence Texas Heat. It can handle high wattage (150watts) so two of them can handle anything a twin can produce easily. Plus it has a smaller magnet than some more modern sounding speakers, so its efficiency is not too high. This gives a kind of "slower" response with less hard peaks. They can also pump out the bottom end, but the tops are nice and warm.
Plus, with a 135 twin you have an advantage over old skool twin users like me (which is both a bonus and also part of the reason purists dislike this type of amp) in that you have a master volume control. Careful balancing of the gains and master, and you can get a fat sweet twin sound at various volumes. Thats the bonus - the down side is that due to having a master volume control, the amp's circuit is more complex than the original non-master models. The more complex an amp is, the more difficult it is to get a really detailed, sweet clear sound. However - this is all swings and roundabouts. What you lose in subtlety, you gain in functionality, so its not all gloom and doom.
Anyways - no twins are not obscenely loud any more than any other high wattage amp is. Its just that they dont overdrive much at all. the ear piercing nature of amy amp is really about the speakers. Yes they can go loud, but they still sound good at low volumes. I generally run mine at 2.5-3 but mine is non master. You should be able to get it sounding nice using the MV at lower volumes.

PS...as far as your idea of trying your 335 with a twin, i reckon its a killer sound! I use pedals for drive too. . Here's mine (you can probably tell from my post i love twins)The pedal on top is an NKT 275 hartman fuzz face. MY amp is not a 135, its much older, but ive played thru a 135 and thought it was cool too:

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

In 1991, I found one of the 135-watt Twins advertised for sale in the local classifieds for $275, an unbelievable price. When my buddy and I went to look at it, it was in terrible shape. It had two mis-matched speakers, different ohms, different makers. Four different brands of power tubes, and missing the upper back panel. The tolex was all torn to hell with big chunks missing, and the speaker grill (or what was left of it) looked like a cat had used it for a scratching post. Fortunately, the tolex on the top right corner of the cab was still intact, because the wood at the top of the cabinet was fractured at the joint, and the tolex was the only thing holding it together! Two knobs were missing, and a couple were broken; one of the casters was gone and the thing teetered like a drunk in the middle of a bender. I went to turn it on and the standby switch was broken.

"Uhhhh,...does it even work?"

"Oh yeah", replied the owner.

I plugged in, set the MV on 10, edged up the channel gain and wouldn't ya' know--that pos sounded fantastic! Tight solid bass, and a sweet top end--everything a Twin is famous for. Lush reverb, throbbing tremelo, rich tone and still loud as heck.

I started adding up what it would cost to fix it and decide that even at $275 it was too much. The owner said he'd give it to me for $250, and throw in a PV SP-3 PA cab that he had. So I bought it; with the fractured cab it took both of us to carefully load it into the wagon. Yep, I owned it for about 45 minutes--we ran it down to a local music store and I traded that amp, cab and $100 for a new Peavey reverb pedal and a new XR-600C head that we needed to get the band going. We got the gear and left in a hurry, LOL! But they fixed it up and sold it--the last time I saw it it had a $899 sticker, so they didn't do too bad on it.

So, I wouldn't necessarily dissuade you from buying a 135-watt Twin. In the right situation, they can work very well. It sounds like you're already aware of the Twin's ability to play very cleanly at high volumes, and if that doesn't fit your needs, I might suggest a lower wattage amp.

But by all means go give it a tryout. If it's a good one, you'll know it--and you'll have enriched your life with the magic either way.

Good luck!

Bill

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

I will say this...it is always up to the end user to decide what he or she likes or doesn't like.

With that said UL Fenders are far more than just cleaner with more headroom...

By that time the tried and true Twin Reverb design had loads of CBS "refinements" that IMHO ruined the tone of those amps.

They are harsh, cold and lifeless...the bias circuit is a joke, the master volume is terrible, the quality of the builds in regards to lead dress and component choice had gone down the tubes, the transformers themselves were not the same quality they were even 10 years earlier, those plywood cabs that with glued in MDF baffles are pure garbage and CBS speaker choice was less than crap.

All these things together make a bad amp...not just the UL part...I only mention the UL part to put a time line on the amp in question.

I would say if you want a loud clean pedal platform there are FAR better amps than ANY BF/SF Fender and that is simply because IMHO the scooped midrange and extended treble response of those amps don't work well with dirt pedals IMHO but if you were set on a Fender get a slightly older one, even a mid 70's MV Twin thats still only 100 watts is a better sounding, sweeter sounding and more musical amp IMHO and to my ears that the one you're looking at.

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Yes, im gonna call you out TGWIF, MM and Stradeluxer and im gonna put in a vote for the twin that the OP is lookign at:

The cork sniffer's criticisms of late 70s early 80s fender twins is that they have ultralinear transformers - no big deal they just give you more headroom - which is what twins are designed to do. They are not made to break up at club volumes. NOt everyone wants overdrive.
As far as preferred tone goes, a couple of cap replacements and UL twins can sound epic. Hell- even blackface twins need cap replacements after all these years. Mine is a 1967 non master. It sure as hell needed it. I like the brown mallory caps, but its cool to have some mallorys in one channel (lets say the reverb channel) and some orange spragues in the dry channel for an even cleaner more hifi tone.

Yes the speakers are crap - easily fixed with something better, but there are lots of nice fender amps with crappy speakers! lol. IMHO a lot of the replacement/upgrade stuff eminence are making now sound just as good and in many cases better than their vintage counterparts. The current fender twins have Jensen c12ks's. They are okay, but nothing special - id probbaly swap them out too.

As far as junk cabs go...glassman just explained that even blackface fenders came with particle board baffles, so thats a moot point.

So...what does that leave us with?
I powerful, clean amp. A more powerful, cleaner fender twin than earlier models. There is nothing wrong at all with 135's. They are pretty damn nice amps. A lot pf players are just afraid of them because they are clean, and therefore you cant hide anywhere. What you play is exactly what you get back. If you suck, you suck, but if you have good touch and nuance, an amp like that can repay you in spades. Not every player in the world wants overdrive.
Here is some info about 135 twins:
http://fenderguru.com/amps/twin-reverb
here is a bit on possible mods:
http://torresengineering.stores.yaho...watfentwi.html



To the OP: there's no need to reduce wattage man. Volume does not equal watts. leave all 4 tubes in place. The trick with twins is in your choice of speakers. Some speakers have high spl's (sound pressure levels) and some are less efficient, so a less efficient speaker will handle the wattage of the twin, but not blow your ear drums out.

The other thing about speakers is their eq curve. Some speakers (like the jensens or the more modern equivalents from weber etc) have a bright cutting tone. Treble takes less wattage to amplify than bass (which requires more anergy to shift the speaker cone) so a bright speaker can become painfully loud. That was all fine and good back when it was an amps job to be heard above a drummer and to cut thru the band, but not so good in this day and age where we tend to mic up our amps. So instead of looking for ways to cut the wattage, look for a darker speaker with less efficiency.
My personal favourite for a twin is the Eminence Texas Heat. It can handle high wattage (150watts) so two of them can handle anything a twin can produce easily. Plus it has a smaller magnet than some more modern sounding speakers, so its efficiency is not too high. This gives a kind of "slower" response with less hard peaks. They can also pump out the bottom end, but the tops are nice and warm.
Plus, with a 135 twin you have an advantage over old skool twin users like me (which is both a bonus and also part of the reason purists dislike this type of amp) in that you have a master volume control. Careful balancing of the gains and master, and you can get a fat sweet twin sound at various volumes. Thats the bonus - the down side is that due to having a master volume control, the amp's circuit is more complex than the original non-master models. The more complex an amp is, the more difficult it is to get a really detailed, sweet clear sound. However - this is all swings and roundabouts. What you lose in subtlety, you gain in functionality, so its not all gloom and doom.
Anyways - no twins are not obscenely loud any more than any other high wattage amp is. Its just that they dont overdrive much at all. the ear piercing nature of amy amp is really about the speakers. Yes they can go loud, but they still sound good at low volumes. I generally run mine at 2.5-3 but mine is non master. You should be able to get it sounding nice using the MV at lower volumes.

PS...as far as your idea of trying your 335 with a twin, i reckon its a killer sound! I use pedals for drive too. . Here's mine (you can probably tell from my post i love twins)The pedal on top is an NKT 275 hartman fuzz face. MY amp is not a 135, its much older, but ive played thru a 135 and thought it was cool too:

Different strokes forum brother....I'll stick with my BF Pro Reverb amp that I've had for ions...I'm just not a later Silverfaced guy,but it's all good.. ;o)

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

I take umbrance to lumping the words 'harsh' and 'hi-fi' togehter. I like some solid state amps that arent spikey or brittle ( read 'harsh'), but yet have a hi-fi sound, which is thick, but clear and very present without much warmth aka as dark color .
A bad tube amp can actually be more harsh and glaring, which is what i belive you meant by Hi-Fi than a good "hi-Fi" solid state or tube amp.

Maybe hi fi isn't a good explanation? How about,sterile,flat,and lifeless? These amps imo lack the nice complex harmonic content of those earlier Fender amps...

[Chickenwings]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Different strokes forum brother....I'll stick with my BF Pro Reverb amp that I've had for ions...I'm just not a later Silverfaced guy,but it's all good.. ;o)

im not trying to convince you to swap your amp bro. Pro reverbs are superb, so are princetons and deluxe reverbs and vibroluxes and many other amps too. I agree its all different strokes and horses for courses. im just letting the op know that he can still sound great with the actual amp hes looking at.

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

im not trying to convince you to swap your amp bro. im just letting the op know that he can sound great with the amp hes looking at.

I'm not planning on swapping my amp forum brother,and I read what you're saying...And it's all good....

[Grenade]

Re: Found a pretty nice Silverface Twin Reverb...

Does it sound good to you? If so it's your amp.