Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

[dystrust]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

I'm sure you're right, but I have a very hard time wrapping my head around this, so I hope you don't mind if I ask some more.

If I catch your drift, that would mean that there is basically no correspondence between the wattage a particular speaker is driven at and its output? Will a 200w speaker really be equally loud when getting fed with 40 w (or 0.1 w) as 200 w? Then how do we get different volume from the same speaker in the first place?

He was saying that the wattage a speaker is driven with combined with its efficiency are what determine volume. A speaker's power handling merely determines how much wattage it can handle without being damaged.

In your example you're only running 40W, so the 100W and 200W power handling aren't relevant. The relevant figures are the 40W input and 100db sensitivity.

[Sirion]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

He was saying that the wattage a speaker is driven with combined with its efficiency are what determine volume.

If so, I'm either not getting something across or severely misunderstanding something, as this sounds very much like what my impression has been. If the output of a speaker is partially being decided by how many watts it is fed, then I also take it that a speaker with a higher power handling is likely to provide less output when one is far away from that maximum. A speaker that can produce the same output, but handle fewer w, I assume is likely to reach the top of its capacity sooner?

I think the whole thing can be boiled down to a single yes/no question: will a 100 w speaker being driven at 0.1 w produce the same output as if it is driven at 100 w? I know it is a silly question, but I have to use at a point of departure, as something seems to be lost in translation between us.

If the answer truly is yes, then I'll shut up and go home.

[dystrust]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

If so, I'm either not getting something across or severely misunderstanding something, as this sounds very much like what my impression has been. If the output of a speaker is partially being decided by how many watts it is fed, then I also take it that a speaker with a higher power handling is likely to provide less output when one is far away from that maximum. A speaker that can produce the same output, but handle fewer w, I assume is likely to reach the top of its capacity sooner?

This impression is incorrect; sensitivity and power handling aren't related in any way. The G12M handles 25W while the G12T-75 handles 75W; both have 97db sensitivity. This means that both will produce the same total volume (db) when driven with an equivalent signal. For example at 0.1W, 1W, and 10W they'll produce the same volume. At some point beyond 25W the G12M will blow while the T75 won't, so the T75 will be much louder at it's maximum wattage.

I think the whole thing can be boiled down to a single yes/no question: will a 100 w speaker being driven at 0.1 w produce the same output as if it is driven at 100 w?

No. The speaker will be far louder at 100W than 0.1W, and its sensitivity will determine how much louder.

[Sirion]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Okay, fair enough; thanks. I was under the impression that sensitivity was an indicator of a speaker's max output. As I said, I don't really know much about this, as it hasn't really been a matter for me until recently.

[dystrust]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Okay, fair enough; thanks. I was under the impression that sensitivity was an indicator of a speaker's max output. As I said, I don't really know much about this, as it hasn't really been a matter for me until recently.

Sensitivity is a standard way to compare how loud speakers are. In my previous post, I mentioned that the G12M and G12T-75 both have a sensitivity of 97db. What that means is that they'll produce 97db at a distance of 1 meter when driven with 1 watt.

[Sirion]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Exactly. It is all clear now – one wrong presumtion brought the whole house of cards down. But at least I know for later! Thanks again, and my apologies to the OP for so badly derailing the thread!

[Demanic]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Brash and stiff could work well with even and more mellow.

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[Emopunk]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

If you're really liking the m65 with the blackstar then maybe you should stay with a model that's in the same ballpark tonally.
The cl80 is quite brash and stiff compared to the m65. The h75 or a v30 would both be closer to the m65 while still adding their own flavor.

You know, after watching this video I thought that the Classic Lead is actually more "musical" and less brash and stiff than V30. That's why I got it in the equation. I am really loving the sound this guy is getting through it.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Sensitivity is a standard way to compare how loud speakers are. In my previous post, I mentioned that the G12M and G12T-75 both have a sensitivity of 97db. What that means is that they'll produce 97db at a distance of 1 meter when driven with 1 watt.

This is correct, though max wattage does have some effect as a voice coil being driven to its limit will exhibit different behavior than one which is not.

Though to be fair, the frequency range being affected by the impedence spike from an overheated voice coil is probably below the range (or at the bottom edge) of what is audible from a standard tuned guitar and speaker. It also depends on how your amp handles the impedence spike from the heated voice coil.

The upshot being that a speaker driven at its operational limit may seem louder than a less fragile speaker with the same sensitivity because the heated voice coil is changing its tonality.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=7059

[Emopunk]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Going back to topic.. did you people watch the video I linked? What do you think? Isn't the CL80 really nice sounding?

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[dave74]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Youtube shootouts don't ever mean much IMO. (For many many reasons)
Nor does tone-description words,,,,,since we all have our own ideas (not to mention ears) as to what exactly they "mean".

[Emopunk]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Youtube shootouts don't ever mean much IMO. (For many many reasons)
Nor does tone-description words,,,,,since we all have our own ideas (not to mention ears) as to what exactly they "mean".

Then what can be of help, since trying most of the spekars on my gear is out of question? [emoji13]

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[dave74]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Then what can be of help, since trying most of the spekars on my gear is out of question? [emoji13]

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Just pay and pray! lol
You're instincts are probably correct with the cl80/m65 mix.
That combo should create the most width and still have that midrange fullness from the m65.

[Emopunk]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Just pay and pray! lol
You're instincts are probably correct with the cl80/m65 mix.
That combo should create the most width and still have that midrange fullness from the m65.

That would be great. A good sonic palette, but still with that barking midrange of the m65... Uhm.. tasty stuff [emoji11]

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[Nightburst]

Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?

Just wanted to add one more thing to the equation, the palmer cabinet is made out of MDF i think. Well I read that on the internet so it might not be true but the point is to also think about the cab you are putting the speakers in rather than just focus on the speakers alone.
I found that good quality cabinets will make speakers perform much better as in making it sound more 3d for lack of a better description. I've had good speakers sound bad in lesser quality cabinets and come to life in a better quality cabinet.