I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

[misterwhizzy]

My recent conversion to a 59 set in my Les Paul convinced me to break out my Wizard/Governor combo in my 2x12 to replace the Green Beret pair that was in there before.

Switching the speakers makes so much more difference than swapping tubes, swapping pickups, swapping magnets, or basically anything short of swapping the amplifier. I think the problem is all we have to go on is word of mouth. It's hard to take your amp somewhere and play through a bunch of different speakers. There's no 21-day return policy. You just have to shell out the money and try it. But man, what a difference it makes.

I still love the Greenback tone and will probably end up putting them back in. I think it's a little strange that for modern tones, players gravitate toward the Vintage 30. (For those of you who don't know, that's the inspiration for Eminence's Governor.) It's almost clinically tight, gives a definite push to the upper mids while avoiding basically any of the speaker breakup that is inherent in any lower-powered speaker. I need to put a little more time in with it, because the low-output pickup thing is still a relatively new area to me, but short of replacing the amp, I really think swapping speakers is the biggest bang for your buck in making a tonal change.

[Diego]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Yup. Here's four different experiences with the same amp head in different speaker combinations:

I recently tried a Tweaker 15 head (not my own, but exactly the same) with it's matching open back Egnater 2x12, loaded with two Celestion Elite 50 (custom-voiced G12-H30s says their website) which I'd never tried before.
Basically every setting I was familiar with didn't work. The damn thing refused to sound like the Pocket Marshall I'm used to. Instead of punch, air and bloom. A smooth, velvety 3D tone that I absolutely loved, but I was totally unfamiliar with.
A lot more Mesa Mark I than anything else. I'd say it's a fusion amp of sorts as it is.

Those same settings with my Tweaker 15 head through my closed back 2x12 loaded with a V30-K100 combo sounds louder, tight, and punchy. What you'd call more Marshall-esque, probably. It's a completely different animal.
Through my Wizard-loaded open back 1x12 it's so much more open in the highs it's crazy. It just slices and loves a Strat or my 339. Loud as **** as well. It's a completely different personality. Way better for cleans, much more 3D sounding.
And when I had that same 1x12 with a Eminence Legend 1258, it just sounded like ****. Farty and mushy. Good for Blackface-style cleans and nothing else. Would quickly fold when pushed with volume, with only 15 watts!
I can see it working today for an interesting indie-like tone or something in rockabilly territory if I tweaked it hard. But I don't wanna.

So yeah, speakers are quite a ****ing thing when it comes to your tone.

[Demanic]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Well, the speakers do translate the electrical signal to an audio signal so...

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

[dave74]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Even different modes within the same amp can "prefer" their own speaker models. (or I should probably say the player prefers)

[texred]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Well, the speakers do translate the electrical signal to an audio signal so...

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

The more ya'll learn me, the more gear you make me want. . .I mean NEED, but I was born a poor,. . . . child

[majewsky]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

That's where I think new moedellers and IRs come in handy. I've bought a few Celestion IRs to pair them with my Helix Native and DAAAYUUUUM. Even the same speaker miced with different microphone or in different flavor blanced/clean/fat/etc is just WOW.

And when you check what best suits you with modeller you can buy what you want.

[IM4Tone]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

IMHO, first I buy an amp that I really like. Attempts to make it much different don't usually work for me. For amps that have more gain (or at least the starting point of the OD) than I prefer, I will change out V1 and sometimes V2 as well, to 5751. That makes a big change to my ear. Next, speakers do, IMO, make a bigger impact on sound than tube swaps of the same type.

So to respond to the OP's title, No, I don't underestimate the importance of speakers.

[Jacew]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Speakers have way more impact than tube swaps or even guitar. Amps do have their own voice always, I think speaker comes next.

I went through pair of pa Eminences to V128 to Greenback and settled on G12H when searching right speakers, and those all had really different sound.

Surprisingly the V128 is supposed to have V30 character to it, but tone wise it was actually much closer to those 8 inch pa speakers than any Celestion I've heard. They we're actually that good only G12H I thought was improvement over them.

[texred]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

IMHO, first I buy an amp that I really like. Attempts to make it much different don't usually work for me. For amps that have more gain (or at least the starting point of the OD) than I prefer, I will change out V1 and sometimes V2 as well, to 5751. That makes a big change to my ear. Next, speakers do, IMO, make a bigger impact on sound than tube swaps of the same type.

So to respond to the OP's title, No, I don't underestimate the importance of speakers.

Thanks for the tips, ya'll. And right on time. Can you tell me what is change out V1 or V1; and what speakers you would like with Peavey vypyr VIP I? Am a total noob, so I bug everybody. Your turn. thx

[texred]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Speakers have way more impact than tube swaps or even guitar. Amps do have their own voice always, I think speaker comes next.

I went through pair of pa Eminences to V128 to Greenback and settled on G12H when searching right speakers, and those all had really different sound.

Surprisingly the V128 is supposed to have V30 character to it, but tone wise it was actually much closer to those 8 inch pa speakers than any Celestion I've heard. They we're actually that good only G12H I thought was improvement over them.

So, if I understand (will require second explanation), the Eminence V128 would sound ok with VIP I? I'm a very low-end for best quality woman. Live on disability, so you can see no $$.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Thanks for the tips, ya'll. And right on time. Can you tell me what is change out V1 or V1; and what speakers you would like with Peavey vypyr VIP I? Am a total noob, so I bug everybody. Your turn. thx

Since you’re a noob...you don’t need to do anything. Learn to play and use the gear you have. Over time you will begin to thing things like: “I wish the amp sounded more like....” or “how can I get more bass”.
Right now, concentrate on learning to play.
V1, V2 etc are position of preamp tubes in a tube amp. Your Peavey does not have them.

[texred]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Yeah, I know you're right. I just get excited ! This is the only fun I have !! Not to mention the more, more, more stuff ya'll rubbed off on me. I attribute it to Forum Hight T.
thx again buddy
Lord knows I got plenty of stuff to play with. . .
As soon as I figure out how

[IM4Tone]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Thanks for the tips, ya'll. And right on time. Can you tell me what is change out V1 or V1; and what speakers you would like with Peavey vypyr VIP I? Am a total noob, so I bug everybody. Your turn. thx

Since you’re a noob...you don’t need to do anything. Learn to play and use the gear you have. Over time you will begin to thing things like: “I wish the amp sounded more like....” or “how can I get more bass”.
Right now, concentrate on learning to play.
V1, V2 etc are position of preamp tubes in a tube amp. Your Peavey does not have them.

That's right, a Vypyr is a solid state modeling amp, so it has no tubes. I had one some years back and there were a lot of good sounds in that amp.

[blind1]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

As electric guitarists, we play the amp (I read this recently somewhere on the tubez and I can't remember the original source). The guitar is a tool we use to play the amp. With that in mind, it seems like having a great amp (and great speaker setup whether it is a combo or a separate cab) is an absolute necessity.

The dilemma people wanting to upgrade equipment face is where do you want to pour your money first? Upgrading from a beginners guitar facilitates better playing usually, and upgrading from a beginners amp facilitates producing better tone.

[dystrust]

Re: I think we underestimate the importance of speakers

Like Diego I also have a Tweaker, and I've used it with two different cabinets at home. Unlike Diego I'm running JJ 6V6s, while I believe he's running 6CA7s or something like that.

Anyway, the first cabinet I used with it is an Egnater Rebel 112X which is closed-back and ported. I bought it empty and initially loaded it with an Eminence Private Jack. The 'USA' and 'AC' modes sounded kind of flat and dull, but 'BRIT' had some pretty good early Marshall tones from JTM-45 to 2203/2204 depending on settings. OTOH my Marshall 2525H sounded tubby and dull with the Private Jack. Since the 2525 is my #1 amp these days I replaced the Private Jack with a Wizard, and now the 2525 and my Jet City JCA22H sound great, while the Tweaker doesn't seem to like the cab on any setting.

I also have an open-back, pine 2x12 built by my former amp tech. I recently loaded it with a pair of Private Jacks, and all I can say is wow! I was thinking that the 'USA' and 'AC' edge of breakup tones would be good (and they are), but I was really blown away by the 'BRIT' tone stack. It doesn't do heavy as well as the closed-back cab, but anything from clean to Zeppelin levels of distortion has this cool 3D quality that the closed cab couldn't touch.

IMO speakers are definitely an important part of the equation, but I don't know if you can directly compare them to a tube or pickup swap. When I first received my JCA22H it had this high end fizz that I couldn't dial out regardless of which cab I played it through. Swapping a couple of the preamp tubes took care of that. Likewise my Charvel Model 4 had this low end buildup that was hard to manage until I swapped the bridge pickup.

On the other end of the spectrum I have a Jubilee 2555 in addition to the Mini 2525H. The 2555 doesn't seem to care what power tubes it's running unless you're playing louder than the voice of god, while the 2525 is incredibly picky about power tubes regardless of volume level. Despite that difference in temperament, both amps seem to really like Eminence Wizards or G12H30s.