Neural DSP Users?

[Phantasmagoria]

Another thing this underscores, is that other new players like Hotone, NUX, Mooer, that have large selection of effects out of the gate, probably stole the code from somewhere (or were smart enough to grab generic algorithms in the public domain.) In fact Mooer was sued for stealing an algorithm from a popular boutique pedal. This tells me that most of the stuff is probably pirated.

Or maybe not.

Just 'cause they ripped off an Ehx pedal does'nt automatically mean that's all they do. The fact that they were successfully sued by Ehx potentially opened the door for a whole bunch of other similar/successful lawsuits (from everyone they "ripped off") and there are'nt any. So maybe it was a one off incident & they actually do their own thing for the most part. In any case they lost and paid their dues and no doubt learned from their "mistake" So maybe it's time to move on?

The truth is all the modeling/amp/pedal etc companies have a pretty keen interest in their competition & probably do pick up the odd 'tip' (algorithm) from each other albiet in a more sophisticated way than Mooer did with EHX. Speaking of lack of sophistication, a few years ago there was a "boutique" pedal company in the US that was putting Joyo PCB's into their own casing's & marketing them as their own pedals for !0X the cost of the Joyo (and folk on the Gear page etc. were loving them & touting them as the best thing ever ). So yeah, stuff like this happens...

The GE300 is it's own beast. They have a different approach to "Tone Capture" than Kemper to it's "profiling", their amp model's are great and they're not the same as anyone else's (ie they have that signature flavor you mentioned in a previous post), their synth engine is obviously different from EHX's this time (or they's just have been sued successfully again) etc..etc.

You've mentioned being biased against Chinese companies earlier, which is your perogative, but that does'nt mean they make product's that are "inferior" 'cause they're actually not. I mean look at the Kemper Vs Preamp live/GE300 profile/capture comparisons on youtube and it's obvious that neither is uniformly 'superior' to the other.. despite a pretty massive difference in price.

I came across a pretty cool video from this dude a couple days ago & he does a pretty thorough job of reviewing it (inside & outside)

[Top-L]

Or maybe not.

Just 'cause they ripped off an Ehx pedal does'nt automatically mean that's all they do. The fact that they were successfully sued by Ehx potentially opened the door for a whole bunch of other similar/successful lawsuits (from everyone they "ripped off") and there are'nt any. So maybe it was a one off incident & they actually do their own thing for the most part. In any case they lost and paid their dues and no doubt learned from their "mistake" So maybe it's time to move on?

The truth is all the modeling/amp/pedal etc companies have a pretty keen interest in their competition & probably do pick up the odd 'tip' (algorithm) from each other albiet in a more sophisticated way than Mooer did with EHX. Speaking of lack of sophistication, a few years ago there was a "boutique" pedal company in the US that was putting Joyo PCB's into their own casing's & marketing them as their own pedals for !0X the cost of the Joyo (and folk on the Gear page etc. were loving them & touting them as the best thing ever ). So yeah, stuff like this happens...

The GE300 is it's own beast. They have a different approach to "Tone Capture" than Kemper to it's "profiling", their amp model's are great and they're not the same as anyone else's (ie they have that signature flavor you mentioned in a previous post), their synth engine is obviously different from EHX's this time (or they's just have been sued successfully again) etc..etc.

You've mentioned being biased against Chinese companies earlier, which is your perogative, but that does'nt mean they make product's that are "inferior" 'cause they're actually not. I mean look at the Kemper Vs Preamp live/GE300 profile/capture comparisons on youtube and it's obvious that neither is uniformly 'superior' to the other.. despite a pretty massive difference in price.

I came across a pretty cool video from this dude a couple days ago & he does a pretty thorough job of reviewing it (inside & outside)

The guy was awarded 75K in a Chinese court. I'm pretty sure his legal costs were more; it was only a moral victory. And he only won because they were so stupid they did not remove his copyrights.

There is nothing westerners can do to stop pirated products flowing out of China. Lets say they somehow manage to close down Mooer. Another company will open up with the same employees, in the same factory, making a nearly identical product.

Also, it took Boss, Zoom, Line6 30 years to develop modeling to this level. You thing some Chinese kids can duplicate that feat in a couple years? Its all pirated garbage. Westerners should not support it, pay a little more for a Boss GT-1, Pod Go, or Zoom G6.

[Phantasmagoria]

Well, that's pretty dismissive

But also totally presumptive....

I own a GE300 & a Hotone Ampero & I can tell you they are completely different sounding /feeling modelers to anything else I've played (and I've played most of the ones out there). They also have different UI's etc. Moreover, they're as different from each other as they are from the Boss's, Zoom's, Pod's, Amplifire's etc out there... so your kinda presuming a lot for someone who has'nt even seen/checked one out.

I'm not a westerner but I do come from a country that has actually fought a war with China. So if you're in some way implying that it's ok for me to "support" & buy Chinese stuff but not for anyone else (this coming from a guy who probably has a Chinese phone, laptop/PC,/tablet, TV, washer/dryer, toothbrush, toothpicks etc) at home well, that's a bit of a hoot...

If missing out on a (clearly) better spec'd/priced (and I would say....sounding) product for some lame/misguided "moral/patriotic" reason is your thing then that's cool. But it's also clearly biased and no reflection on the quality of the product (Mooer/Ampero) ..which is frankly about as awesome as they come.

[Top-L]

Well, that's pretty dismissive

But also totally presumptive....

I own a GE300 & a Hotone Ampero & I can tell you they are completely different sounding /feeling modelers to anything else I've played (and I've played most of the ones out there). They also have different UI's etc. Moreover, they're as different from each other as they are from the Boss's, Zoom's, Pod's, Amplifire's etc out there... so your kinda presuming a lot for someone who has'nt even seen/checked one out.

I'm not a westerner but I do come from a country that has actually fought a war with China. So if you're in some way implying that it's ok for me to "support" & buy Chinese stuff but not for anyone else (this coming from a guy who probably has a Chinese phone, laptop/PC,/tablet, TV, washer/dryer, toothbrush, toothpicks etc) at home well, that's a bit of a hoot...

If missing out on a (clearly) better spec'd/priced (and I would say....sounding) product for some lame/misguided "moral/patriotic" reason is your thing then that's cool. But it's also clearly biased and no reflection on the quality of the product (Mooer/Ampero) ..which is frankly about as awesome as they come.

The Chinese can't even land a man on the moon. Do you think they can model guitar amps?? No way.

[bigcupholder]

Also, it took Boss, Zoom, Line6 30 years to develop modeling to this level. You thing some Chinese kids can duplicate that feat in a couple years? Its all pirated garbage. Westerners should not support it, pay a little more for a Boss GT-1, Pod Go, or Zoom G6.

You're confusing progress on the hardware side with progress on the software side.

The hardware didn't exist until fairly recently. As much as we like to think tube amps are magic, they can be modeled fairly easily by essentially stacking a bunch of multi band compressors. Implementing a system to automatically learn all those parameters takes a matter of weeks, not years. And anyone can buy a Sharc DSP to build around.

The hardware was always the main limitation. The other is spending the time to map out all the knobs and how they interact with each other so that the model isn't just a glorified profile with adjustable gain and EQ.

I'm not defending a company with a track record of blatant copyright infringement (by all means, we definitely need more consumers with ethics), but making an amp modeller is not as difficult as you think.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[Phantasmagoria]

The Chinese can't even land a man on the moon. Do you think they can model guitar amps?? No way.

Great point.. landing people on the moon = Pffftt! ....nothing tougher than modeling guitar tones out there

Don't get me started on the 'moon-landing' though

[Mincer]

Let's not run down the China vs the world rabbit hole in this thread.

[Masta' C]

Aww, shucks, I was hoping to see where it went!

I just want to draw attention to the fact that an entire industry has grown out of copying circuits in amps and pedals and it's not just one "country" doing it.

The Mooer stuff is interesting. They seem to have cheap clones, but they also have some big brains in the operation. I was sold on their viability when Devin Townsend created the Ocean Machine with them. This is a guy who has signature Framus guitars and Fishman Fluence pickups...just saying!

[Phantasmagoria]

As far as I'm concerned, Mooer & Hotone could come from Timbuktu for all I care. It's got nothing to do with country of origin. The GE300 & Ampero are both great products at prices I'd be an idiot to ignore 'cause of some absolutely hypocritical 'moral issue' (considering the entire industry runs pretty much the way Masta' C described up there & the only real consideration for anyone is how much copying from the competition they can get away with before it becomes a problem...) & both modeler's are as good sounding/feeling as, if not better than anything else that's out there ( .....especially if you figure in price ....or even regardless of price in the case of the GE 300, just based on the sheer amount of features it offers which is unmatched by any other modeler around).

[Hank-]

As some of you know, I recently picked up the Archetype: Nolly suite by Neural DSP and I'm absolutely loving it, especially for my intended use at home. I totally see major recording potential with it, as well. Everything about it is just SO good and its an incredibly attractive/straightforward design!

Anyone else here really digging the Neural stuff?

If you haven't tried any yet, Neural offers free demos for all of their plug-ins and they just released an Archetype: Cory Wong suite this week that is already getting rave reviews for it's exceptional clean, funk and mild drive tones!

As for me, I'm currently awaiting a sale on the Plini and/or Fortin "Cali" packages

BTW, Neural is also entering the high-end floorboard market this Fall with their Quad-Cortex, so I think they'll become a much bigger name in the near future. If you haven't heard of the QC yet, it's likely to be at the top of its game once released! Here's a link: LINK

Coming back to the Neural Quad. It appears to be built well from the specs. Hope the vents dont help with booze sepage into the innards, that thing is pricey. At first look I thought the vents were for built in Poweramp, I glanced through the specs but couldn't find anything. That would have been a nice addition though.

[RexRemus]

Coming back to the Neural Quad. It appears to be built well from the specs. Hope the vents dont help with booze sepage into the innards, that thing is pricey. At first look I thought the vents were for built in Poweramp, I glanced through the specs but couldn't find anything. That would have been a nice addition though.

No poweramp, it's just passive cooling for the processors

[ThomasJudkins]

For now, I haven't tried either the GT1000 or any of the Neural DSP products...

[Bogner]

Is the Quad even in stock anywhere yet? The hype has been massive and the wait has been LLLLOOOONNNNNNGGGGGGG over a year.

[Masta' C]

Looks like Sweetwater is the sole USA retail distributor at the moment: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ler-floorboard

[Mincer]

With so much hype, I don't think any product could live up to it.