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Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

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  • Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

    I think I'll che out those Shougan?? 12AX7AC9.
    But what to go in the phase inverter. I definitly want a "matched tube".
    Some suggestions? Thanks
    RG 550 [JB | SingleSizedHole(TM) | V1 (to be replaced)]
    TS 7 (modded)
    Hot Rod 50+ XL
    Framus Dragon 4x12
    V-AMP II for practice

  • #2
    Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

    Eh12ax7 110/110
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    • #3
      Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

      The brand of tube you use isn't as important as the PI is not really part of the tone shaping stage- it's more important that they are pretty closely balanced or matched- yes it can some effect on your tone- but only as to how much gain they deliver to the power tubes.
      " Rock and Roll IS a contact sport!"

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      • #4
        Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

        ok thx! i'll take a balanced one... maybe EH
        RG 550 [JB | SingleSizedHole(TM) | V1 (to be replaced)]
        TS 7 (modded)
        Hot Rod 50+ XL
        Framus Dragon 4x12
        V-AMP II for practice

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

          I don't mean to throw gas on the fire. But I really don't buy into the Matched PI tube idea. This makes sense to me in the HiFi Audiophile world.But I've never viewed my Guitar amp as a HiFi circuit. ( That is THD less than 0.05%) I could be wrong? But I think Guitar amps are the only circuits that still use carbon composite resistors or at least I prefer them in my amps. If you can hear a tonal difference with a matching PI tube,by all means go for it.
          http://www.soundclick.com/whirlwindbluesrevue

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          • #6
            Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

            don't quote me on this:
            unmatched PI can cause drops in the frequence range afaik
            so i better pay 5 bucks more ...

            i read about people who like unmatched over mathced PI too ...
            RG 550 [JB | SingleSizedHole(TM) | V1 (to be replaced)]
            TS 7 (modded)
            Hot Rod 50+ XL
            Framus Dragon 4x12
            V-AMP II for practice

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

              There is a never ending discussion as to whether the PI should be balanced or not-some prefer the sound of an unbalanced- some don't- personally I prefer the balanced. there is a good discussion about this at Myles Rose's website- he is a noted tube guru, and yes he does work for GT as well as himself, but in all his discussions he is pretty careful not to be biased in GT's favor- anyway, check it out for yourself and make your conclusions. THe part about matching PI starts about half way down the page.
              http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/GTlink.html
              marvar
              Super Toneologist
              Last edited by marvar; 12-19-2005, 08:42 AM.
              " Rock and Roll IS a contact sport!"

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              • #8
                Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                JJ ECC83S matched...

                the part that screws me up a bit is how the phase inverter circuit is unbalanced anyway. Look at the circuit, 100k does not equal 82k.


                www.CelticAmplifiers.com

                "You can't save everybody, everybody don't wanna be saved."

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                • #9
                  Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                  Originally posted by marvar
                  The brand of tube you use isn't as important as the PI is not really part of the tone shaping stage- it's more important that they are pretty closely balanced or matched- yes it can some effect on your tone- but only as to how much gain they deliver to the power tubes.
                  Actually, in a lot of Marshalls and similar amps, the PI is where much of the crunch is created.

                  Count me as another who doesn't buy into the matched PI argument. First off, how matched is matched? Secondly, how matched are the components around the PI? If they're not perfectly matched, a perfectly matched PI tube will only reflect the amp's inherent imbalance. Remember that many amps are built with 20% components--that variance is probably greater than all but the most unbalanced dual triodes. Finally, a number of people find the assymetric waveform of an unbalanced PI to be preferable that produced by a balanced PI.

                  I'm happy to spend money where I think it'll yield better tone but when it comes to balanced PIs I'm in no hurry to open my wallet.
                  Originally posted by LesStrat
                  make sure that you own the gear, not vice versa.
                  My Music

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                  • #10
                    Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                    Originally posted by marvar
                    in all his discussions he is pretty careful not to be biased in GT's favor
                    He might not blatently push GT stuff on his web site but from what I've seen, 100% of his posts on discussion boards are oriented towards promoting GT or other companies with which he has a business relationship. I have no doubt that he knows his stuff but he has a PT Barnum streak a mile wide.
                    Originally posted by LesStrat
                    make sure that you own the gear, not vice versa.
                    My Music

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                    • #11
                      Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                      most folks do not know our favorite capacitors have a +/- 20% spec. I can match up paired resistors easily, but caps are another story.


                      www.CelticAmplifiers.com

                      "You can't save everybody, everybody don't wanna be saved."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                        I've never paid any extra for a balanced pre tube. I just make sure they're high quality and new, and normally use something like a JJ ECC83S, like Scott mentioned. I love JJ power tubes, but I tend to only use JJ pre tubes as PI's or reverb drivers, or FX loop drivers. When it comes to the 1st and 2nd gain stages, it's gotta be a GT-C, Mullard, Telefunken, Tungsol, or Sovtek LPS.
                        Originally posted by Boogie Bill
                        I've got 60 guitars...but 49 trumpets is just...INSANITY! WTF!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                          Originally posted by Gearjoneser
                          I've never paid any extra for a balanced pre tube. I just make sure they're high quality and new, and normally use something like a JJ ECC83S, like Scott mentioned. I love JJ power tubes, but I tend to only use JJ pre tubes as PI's or reverb drivers, or FX loop drivers. When it comes to the 1st and 2nd gain stages, it's gotta be a GT-C, Mullard, Telefunken, Tungsol, or Sovtek LPS.
                          maybe it is just a very little improvement... but i learned take 10 of this very little improvements
                          and you're gonna look like this:
                          RG 550 [JB | SingleSizedHole(TM) | V1 (to be replaced)]
                          TS 7 (modded)
                          Hot Rod 50+ XL
                          Framus Dragon 4x12
                          V-AMP II for practice

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                            Originally posted by Marcel
                            maybe it is just a very little improvement... but i learned take 10 of this very little improvements
                            and you're gonna look like this:
                            I agree. You go bug-eyed from looking so hard to tell the difference. Personally, I'd rather waste, uh, spend my money on oxygen free cables than balanced PIs.

                            Seriously, if it sounds better to you, that's great. What's voodoo to some is magic to others.
                            Originally posted by LesStrat
                            make sure that you own the gear, not vice versa.
                            My Music

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Which Tube for the Phase Inverter?

                              Originally posted by aleclee
                              I agree. You go bug-eyed from looking so hard to tell the difference. Personally, I'd rather waste, uh, spend my money on oxygen free cables than balanced PIs.

                              Seriously, if it sounds better to you, that's great. What's voodoo to some is magic to others.
                              lol maybe you're right ..
                              but we talk about 5 bucks and if the matching don't help you still got a selected tube..

                              I think i can do nothing wrong by putting at least a selected tube in tht PI.
                              RG 550 [JB | SingleSizedHole(TM) | V1 (to be replaced)]
                              TS 7 (modded)
                              Hot Rod 50+ XL
                              Framus Dragon 4x12
                              V-AMP II for practice

                              Comment

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