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Volume limit on DSL100 to not blow one of the four G12EVHs in my cab?

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  • Volume limit on DSL100 to not blow one of the four G12EVHs in my cab?

    This has been discussed ad nauseum online, "EVH 4X12 is made of four 20 watt speakers but they're secretly not actually 20 watts, they're 25-30, but that's still too low if we're talking 100 watt head, so what's the deal?" But let's take as a starting assumption that the G12EVH is a 25 watt speaker. I've never heard anyone really say it's actually 20 watts, some people have suggested it could be as high as 30 watts in reality. But let's take the average here.

    I'm playing a JCM2000 100 watter, where on the volume does this amp start to punch through that 100 watt ceiling? I once had a Boss TAE for about five seconds (I'm not an attenuator guy) and that device is equipped with a clipping light (the TAE has adjustable wattage and the light trips whenever you push past the setting). The DSL never once triggered it even dimed. By contrast, my Dad's Bassman 50 constantly tripped it.

    What's a safe volume here? Do these preamp-gain-heavy amps like the DSL stay closer to their stated wattage, perhaps? Should I keep below 5? 7? Not that I'll ever need to go that high, but I wanna know the ground rules.
    Last edited by Peaj; 11-19-2021, 05:39 PM.

  • #2
    Not sure if there is a safe volume. Remember guitar signals have peaks and valleys. You only need one good peak to blow a speaker. I live by the rule the cab should be at least 1.5x the wattage of the amp. A 100w amp I would use a 150 watt cab at minimum. At bedroom levels you should be okay. If you are gigging/jamming with it be careful.

    I have the same head BTW.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Securb View Post
      Not sure if there is a safe volume. Remember guitar signals have peaks and valleys. You only need one good peak to blow a speaker. I live by the rule the cab should be at least 1.5x the wattage of the amp. A 100w amp I would use a 150 watt cab at minimum. At bedroom levels you should be okay. If you are gigging/jamming with it be careful.

      I have the same head BTW.
      Let's say I buy an EVH 2X12 and slap it on top on the 4X12, perhaps I'm good? Covers me up to 1.5 times the stated wattage.

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      • #4
        I did something similar with my JCM 2000. I had a 100w 1x15 cab and a 300w 4x12. I had no problems.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Peaj View Post

          Let's say I buy an EVH 2X12 and slap it on top on the 4X12, perhaps I'm good? Covers me up to 1.5 times the stated wattage.
          I don't believe that helps at all. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

          edit; Does it matter if they are daisy-chained vs both from the tap?
          Last edited by dave74; 11-19-2021, 06:38 PM.

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          • #6
            It depends on the effective impedances of the two cabinets, how the power divides. (Are all the EVH cabinets 16 ohms now? That sounds like two 8-ohm speakers in series for the 2x12, and a series-parallel combination of four 16-ohm speakers in the 4x12.)

            If the amp was truly delivering 100 watts, each cabinet would be getting 50 watts. Each speaker in the 2x12 would be getting 25 W, and each speaker in the 4x12 would be getting 12.5 W. Could you run two 4x12 16-ohm cabs?
            It sounds great right now! Lets see if we can break it!

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            • #7
              Just another thought: If play on a low volume, you need more bass to have a full sound. If you go louder, you can roll the bass down. And remember the low freq. kill your speakers. Most guitar have too much lows, which sounds good playing alone, but muds up when the band kicks in.
              I get the feeling the A8 will blow your skirt up more so - Edgecrusher

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Little Pigbacon View Post
                It depends on the effective impedances of the two cabinets, how the power divides. (Are all the EVH cabinets 16 ohms now? That sounds like two 8-ohm speakers in series for the 2x12, and a series-parallel combination of four 16-ohm speakers in the 4x12.)

                If the amp was truly delivering 100 watts, each cabinet would be getting 50 watts. Each speaker in the 2x12 would be getting 25 W, and each speaker in the 4x12 would be getting 12.5 W. Could you run two 4x12 16-ohm cabs?
                What if the two cabs were daisy-chained?




                Off topic a bit because it's more about impedance balance on the transformer, not wattage like this OP.

                I remember a discussion on another forum years ago about how we should always use the same speaker cable length when using two cabs each off their own tap.
                One member posted that he uses a cab below the head and another on the other side of the stage which often required a 50ft cable so the cable would be laying out of the way.
                Then someone else posted that he should just daisy the cabs since they already had in-out jacks for daisy. He said that would keep the transformer running balanced.

                I know nothing on this but always have wondered if these sorts of things would even make any difference at those impedance points, or the differences between at those cable lengths (say 3ft vs 50ft).

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                • #9
                  If you daisy-chain two cabinets, the two loads are in parallel, but the obvious difference is that the current to both cabs has to run through the first wire at the same time, then it splits up at the first cab. Some of the current runs through the speakers in the first cab, and the rest of the current runs through the speakers in the second cab.

                  The longer the wire to the second cab, and the thinner the wire, the more resistance is in that wire, and the more unbalanced the power to the two cabs is going to be. Also, whatever the length and gauge of the wire, lower-impedance cabs will make the wire matter more.

                  How much this all matters depends a lot on the resistance of your wire per foot, and how many feet you have. Remember that a 20-foot run of speaker cable is actually 40 feet of copper the signal has to run through, in addition to the impedance of the speakers themselves.

                  I was looking online a little for resistances of different gauges of copper wire per unit of length, but I dont know whose numbers to trust. (Also, is it different for stranded vs. solid wire? I am no engineer; I dropped out.) I have tried measuring cables myself, but I find it difficult to get consistent measurements on low-ohm pieces of wire. I think a lot depends on how good an electrical connection you have between the wire and the probes, when the resistance to be measured its so small.
                  It sounds great right now! Lets see if we can break it!

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                  • #10
                    Your total cab load is the sum of those 4 speakers. You won’t blow them up unless you dimed the amp wide open for an extended period of time. You’re fine.
                    Last edited by ErikH; 11-21-2021, 09:20 AM.

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                    • #11
                      As Erik said, it will be fine unless you are running it on 10 all the time, and even then, it'll probably be fine for a long time. Guys used to run Superleads into 4-12 Greenback cabinets all the time back in the day.

                      LPB, his speaker wire is probably 16AWG (.004 ohms/foot) or 14AWG (.0025 ohms/foot), even 18AWG is only .0064 ohms per foot, the resistance in a short speaker wire run is irrelevant, you're way overthinking this.

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                      • #12
                        Really? The resistance of the junction between a probe and a cable end is probably more than that.

                        Edit: That is much smaller than the error of what I could consistently measure with my cheap meter. (I used to have one that claimed more precision.) The offset of the meter with the factory leads and a lot of contact pressure was about 0.4 ohms, and it kept swinging +/- 0.1 ohm. Adding 2 meters of stranded 12 AWG speaker cable and a couple of 1/4-inch ends barely changed the readings.

                        Edit II: Do they measure this wire by the spool, or what? MFT? No wonder people get pissed off over cable marketing.

                        Edit III: Now I want a fancy meter with NIST-traceable calibration.

                        Edit IV: The forum has done its job once again. Thank you devastone.
                        Last edited by Little Pigbacon; 11-20-2021, 09:59 AM.
                        It sounds great right now! Lets see if we can break it!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Peaj View Post

                          Let's say I buy an EVH 2X12 and slap it on top on the 4X12, perhaps I'm good? Covers me up to 1.5 times the stated wattage.
                          Nope

                          Max wattage will be exactly the same. It's still putting half your wattage into 2 EVH speakers.
                          "New stuff always sucks" -Me

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                          • #14
                            LPB wasn't overthinking it, I was. LPB was just going wonky in the attempt to explain my silly questions.

                            Adieu is confirming what I was thinking on the wattage issue.

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                            • #15
                              Adieu is correct.
                              It sounds great right now! Lets see if we can break it!

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