I don't THINK this is the placebo effect

[misterwhizzy]

I've always had some sort of bizarre fantasy with rolling tubes, especially in the preamp, since that's more affordable. Sometimes I can hear a difference, and sometimes I really can't. I had gone through just about all the available new production tubes, but I'm always keeping an eye out.

TubeDepot had a sale last month, and the PSVane 12AX7 caught my eye, especially because it was about $13, so I decided to go for it. I also picked up a short-plate JJ ECC83S, just because I don't have one anymore, and regardless of what else you may have to say about them, they're probably the most reliable tube being made today. Anyways, after using the PSVane to replace the Mullard RI in V1 of my Marshall Origin 50 and firing it up, I was surprised to hear a brightness that was just clear without any ice-pick or harshness.. But that's for clean tones, and really, who cares? Engage the overdrive, and the lower mids were firmer and more present with a little more punch in the bass.

My only other experience with Chinese preamp tubes was a Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG, if memory serves, and it also sounded very similar, with more clarity in the mids than the Russian tubes I usually use while preserving what I like about the top end, but that's in another amp right now. I only have about half an hour of playtime on this one so far, but I was pleasantly surprised and wouldn't hesitate to recommend the brand.

tl;dr: My experience with Chinese tubes is that I've gotten more than what I've paid for while perhaps slightly improving my tone.

[trevorus]

It is the placebo effect. If the tube isn’t defective or way out of spec, it does very little.

https://youtu.be/VaO7MmghoqA?si=X2AgGJns1VRXMzlS

[beaubrummels]

I'd say yes and no. If the tubes perform slightly differently, that could be enough to drive the power section and the speakers differently sufficient to sense a tonal shift. I don't think tubes themselves have an inherent tone, but changing them can upset the performance of the amp enough to hear a difference overall. For example, any gain change affects your distortion, midrange response and other frequencies.

[misterwhizzy]

It is the placebo effect. If the tube isn’t defective or way out of spec, it does very little.

https://youtu.be/VaO7MmghoqA?si=X2AgGJns1VRXMzlS

Why are we trying to bring science into this?

Also, I really find that guy obnoxious.

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

It has been my experience that rolling tubes makes a very noticeable difference in some amps.... And very little difference in other amps..... At least with my settings.

If you hear a difference...it doesn't matter to anyone else.... Also it doesn't matter if it's real or placebo..


Roll with it.

[trevorus]

Why are we trying to bring science into this?

Also, I really find that guy obnoxious.

Oh, I know he can be grating, but I like the methodology. The thing is, it kind of tells us that for the most part, if the tube is in spec, we should be able to get the tone we expect.

With the shortages that have been happening with world events, it's helpful that the tube you can get vs the one you can't shouldn't be that huge of a difference.

Same guy does speaker comparisons, and man, that's where a HUGE portion of our tone comes from.

[NegativeEase]

Yeah, tubes can sound very slightly different unless they are worn out or faulty -and thats the problem most peoples opinion in media and on forums are from A/B tests where the new ones we so want so badly to sound better are compared against worn out ones. -fulfilling the dopamine fix we were looking for in the first place.

-Tube tone is mostly a response to wanting to emotionally validate prestige or bargain purchases..

I dont get too wrapped up in it -especially for gigging.

[Cynical]

It is the placebo effect. If the tube isn’t defective or way out of spec, it does very little.

https://youtu.be/VaO7MmghoqA?si=X2AgGJns1VRXMzlS

Glenn Fricker's "scientific" tests are always stupid in some way or another. In one test, he tested power tubes with a load instead of a cab, which totally fails because the reason different power tubes sound different is how much they react to the impedance curve of the speakers; in another, he tested changing the tubes in a Joyo amp where the tube is only cosmetic and doesn't have an actual effect on the sound. Given that his job is "get you to click on a stupid video by coming up with some outrageous finding in order to get paid by Youtube for making you watch ads", you'd be foolish to trust anything he says.

[Inflames626]

No idea about the tubes, but, although I like a lot of his mixing content, I hate the Fricker YouTube personality. *Sarcasm sarcasm bass players are stupid sarcasm.* We get it. Canadians are sarcastic as a national trait. It doesn't make him cool or edgy or any more of an authority on anything. Reading snarky quotes that are critical of him in a chipmunk voice is stupid as well, as are the various facial contortions in the YouTube thumbnails.

Then again, he's marketing himself to teenage beginner and intermediate players watching him on phones and recording their stuff on Behringer equipment bought on minimum wage part time work.

I respect the dude's knowledge to the point I want to say: drop the act, talk to me like an adult, give me the content, and make it clear what you're selling so I can ignore the sponsor. There's always a sponsor or Patreon begging because YouTube is pretty much an infomercial now.

This YouTube ecosystem works in any niche, though. If you see Fricker do something, chances are Fluff will do something similar, or Dines, or Eller, and around the circle goes until it closes with the predictable collab/crossover video. Gaming related content creators are this way as well.

[Cynical]

This YouTube ecosystem works in any niche, though. If you see Fricker do something, chances are Fluff will do something similar, or Dines, or Eller, and around the circle goes until it closes with the predictable collab/crossover video. Gaming related content creators are this way as well.

Yep, that's what the Youtube algorithm rewards -- since "similar videos" get recommended, if one video does well, the "correct" thing to do is make a near copy of it to get into recommendations. It turns the platform into a circular human centipede.

[Inflames626]

Yep, that's what the Youtube algorithm rewards -- since "similar videos" get recommended, if one video does well, the "correct" thing to do is make a near copy of it to get into recommendations. It turns the platform into a circular human centipede.

Funny how a platform designed to allow us to express our individuality has turned into an echo chamber of groupthink.

[Rex_Rocker]

Tubes make more of a difference in the room that recorded, for sure. But even so, I wouldn't say it's night and day difference either.

I kind of want to agree with Glenn in that regard, but the way he presents his stuff is just so unrelatable. Shouting and screaming as if everyone is a dumbass but himself.

Same as with pickups. Yes. Speaker choice, cabinet choice, mic choice, and mic placement make 73947394397 times more of a difference, and it's the first thing one should look at when getting a good recorded tone. 100% agreed. But to ignore the little details like pickups is never the thing a good engineer would make. I bet if he told his heroes (Andy Sneap and Fredrick Nordstrom) that, they'd laugh in his face.

Honestly, his tones, while they're definitely not some amateur's in a bedroom with a POD 2.0 and a Focusrite Scarlett, are certainly nothing to write home about either. Especially considering how radical his views are.

[Rex_Rocker]

BTW, I love the old Shuguang 12AX7B's. Sadly, Shuguang is no more, and I doubt they'll be returning.

I wouldn't say they're "clear", but that's exactly what I love about them. They're grindy, dirty, with lots of character, a chunky deep low-end, and some ratty upper mids. Kinda the opposite of JJ ECC83S's. I agree, though. JJ's are way more reliable and consistent.

Personally, for me, my usual go-to recipee is a Russian Svetlana 12AX7SV, a Russian Mullard CV4004, or a Russian Gold Lion CV4004 in V1, depending on what I can get my hands on, as those are all very similar-sounding, a Sovtek 12AX7LPS for the PI inverter, and Shuguang 12AX7B's in all other spots, unvariably. That combo works for all of the amps I've had best, no exception. And believe me, I've tried rolling and rolling tubes for countless hours.

[trevorus]

Glenn Fricker's "scientific" tests are always stupid in some way or another. In one test, he tested power tubes with a load instead of a cab, which totally fails because the reason different power tubes sound different is how much they react to the impedance curve of the speakers; in another, he tested changing the tubes in a Joyo amp where the tube is only cosmetic and doesn't have an actual effect on the sound. Given that his job is "get you to click on a stupid video by coming up with some outrageous finding in order to get paid by Youtube for making you watch ads", you'd be foolish to trust anything he says.

The load box thing was to isolate the variables. Also, the later tests with speakers shows that that does the most change in tone. Believe him, don't believe him, that's your prerogative. I play through a floor modeler system now, have played through tube amps most of my career, built a few, modded even more. It really comes down to, if it sounds good, it is good.

[Leon Of Late]

I agree that tubes can make a difference in some amps and not as much in others. I find that in Marshall circuits I have owned, V1 has the biggest effect, followed by V2 and then the PI slot. I have a handful of NOS 12AX7’s, including Amprex Bugle Boy, RFT, RCA Blackplate and GE orange and white box. They all sound noticeably different in both of the recent Marshall’s I have had them in.

I recently found a deal on Amprex Bugle Boy tubes manufactured in Canada, so I bought 4. They sound very similar to my original Bugle Boy, but a tad less brilliant and a tiny bit noisier in V1. The RFT, which was my favorite in my 2205, sounds noticeably darker than the Bugle Boy in my DSL40C. I ended up with the Amprex in V1 and the Canadian version in the other slots. I really need to get a dedicated PI tube, maybe one of those LPS suffix tubes? Can’t recall who makes that one right now. Maybe Sovtek?

I think everyone’s ears might hear frequencies differently, and some may hear a difference and some may not. I agree that if you hear a difference that you like…that’s all that matters.