Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

[ICTGoober]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

If you recall, I don't believe his bridge is too high.

[cactus jack]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Thanks for all the help guys. As I've mentioned I'm a rookie when it comes to setups (obviously), and really appreciate your insight. You're teaching me a lot and your time and insight is very much appreciated.

I'll pop the neck off this weekend to check the pocket, and also pick up a set of feeler gauges to get the best measurements possible. For now, I've remeasured following suggestions in previous posts. Also, I used the fret rocker to check the frets and found all frets were essentially level. Barely, if any, rocking was noticed. Here is where I'm currently at:

General neck relief:




Placed a capo at the 1st fret and the 15 fret, which is the closest to the neck joint I could get. Measuring at the 6th fret my best estimate without feelers is .0157":




With the capo at the 2nd fret the string is laying on the 1st fret with no space:



With the capo at the 1st the string height at the 12th is 1/32 or .0315":

[Silence Kid]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Could be I've made everyone's ignore list - but mentioning it again, wouldn't a shim under the 'opposite' (closer to the headstock) end of the neck pocket force the bridge lower in setup if all you want is the bridge to be lower, regardless of the cause?

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

I still think the truss rod is too tight.

Actually NO. There is considerable bow in the neck creating too much string relief. This means the truss rod needs to be tightened to get rid of the bow and get the neck straight.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

With capo on 1st and 15th frets there is way too much bow to your neck.

1). Tighten your truss rod to remove that bow and get your neck straight.
2). Adjust bridge height to give better string action (1/16" to 1/8" at 21st fret)
3). Check that the nut is slotted correctly

If your bridge still seems too high, you will need to shim (reverse shim) your neck pocket.

[ehdwuld]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

To check the nut slot depth

Capo 3rd fret
Measure height over first fret
Should be just the slightest space under string

Capo at second fret doesn't do anything

[cactus jack]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Popped off the neck. It's hard to tell, but the strips of excess finish on the sides were indeed raised. For reference, dragging a pick across the pocket it would snag when it hit the finish. I removed the sticker and carefully cleaned up the finish. While not completely gone I can drag a razer blade across the pocket without a snag.




I need to clean up the screw holes on the neck, but in general it was in good shape.



Finally, I took a few measurements and confirmed the pocket is properly angled, and is relatively flat





Now that the pocket is cleaned up, time to put the neck back on and check the relief and action.

I'm embarrassed to admit how many HOURS I've spent so far...but I'm making progress!

Thanks to everyone here I've been able to get my guitar close to dialed in. I still need to set pickup height, and I've decided to replace all the electronics. I currently have a decent harness, which includes to push pulls for coil splits. However, I don't like the feel of the pots, Bournes which feel too loose, and have decided I'm not a push pull guy. Instead I'm going to wire up a set of Triple Shots and switch to CTS pots and 50's style wiring.

Here's my progress so far.

Relief: Using the notched straight edge as a guide and feeler gauges for measurements I was able to set the relief to .005". It took several minute truss rod tweaks and a whole lot of patience, but I got there.

Action: After getting the neck adjusted I was able to adjust the string height down to a buzz free 1/64" on the treble side, and 2/64" on the bass.

Nut: After measuring the nut it was apparent it was cut too low. I couldn't balance the relief and action the way I wanted. As such, I've ordered a new Graph Tech nut and will get that installed asap. The old one is plastic so it was time to go anyway. In the meantime, I shimmed the nut with a thin slice of business card. It's a bit high, but pretty darn close and zero buzz which is nice.

Other: Thank god for real tools! No way I could get this dialed by eye. I knew something was wrong with the original setup, but no idea how to fix it. Also, I've decided to replace the tuners. If I put in this much work to get the setup right, I might as well make sure tuning is as good at it can be.

A few quick pics:

Original:


Adjusted:


A bit more relief on the treble side, but darn near .005" across the neck.


1/64th on the treble side...pic turned out blurry...

Original bass string action:


Adjusted:


May not look like much, but I've been able to drop the bridge by about 1.5 turns

Original:


Adjusted: I have not adjusted pickup height yet


Original:


Adjusted:


Original:


Adjusted: Bad pic...


My new best friends:

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Looks much better to me.

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

How does it play now?

[cactus jack]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

How does it play now?

It plays so much better. Honestly, I had no idea a few mm could make such a big difference. I can't wait to get the new nut on, and I've also decided to try my hand at filing the bridge saddles to the proper radius. The neck has a compound radius from 10"-16" so the bridge should be close to 18" and it's currently stock at 12".

One thing I did, which I believe really help sustain was seating the neck via an old G&L trick. I'm sure lots of folks do this, but basically you tune the guitar to half pitch then losen the neck screws a quarter turn. Then tune to pitch and the neck sucks into the pocket nice and tight. Doing that little trick vs simply bolting the neck on seems to have increased the sustain and overall vibration. Could be a placebo effect, but it seems to have done something.

[beaubrummels]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

I've also decided to try my hand at filing the bridge saddles to the proper radius. The neck has a compound radius from 10"-16" so the bridge should be close to 18" and it's currently stock at 12".

Won’t that put you back to needing to raise the bridge, possibly where it all was before?

Also FWIW, the original photos all look like what all my SGs looked like when they came stock and after adjusting the truss for my string gauge they looked like the after pictures. YMMV

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

One thing I did, which I believe really help sustain was seating the neck via an old G&L trick. I'm sure lots of folks do this, but basically you tune the guitar to half pitch then losen the neck screws a quarter turn. Then tune to pitch and the neck sucks into the pocket nice and tight. Doing that little trick vs simply bolting the neck on seems to have increased the sustain and overall vibration. Could be a placebo effect, but it seems to have done something.

I'm a fan, and don't think it's placebo. Heard someone on here mention that close to 15 years ago. I decided to try it so I could call BS, and heard a difference. Been doing it to all my bolt-ons ever since.

[cactus jack]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Won’t that put you back to needing to raise the bridge, possibly where it all was before?

Also FWIW, the original photos all look like what all my SGs looked like when they came stock and after adjusting the truss for my string gauge they looked like the after pictures. YMMV

Maybe I need to think through the bridge a bit. I assumed once I set the E strings my actions was essentially set and flattening the radius would simply lower the middle strings.

[beaubrummels]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Maybe I need to think through the bridge a bit. I assumed once I set the E strings my actions was essentially set and flattening the radius would simply lower the middle strings.

Hmm yeah maybe, going from 12 to 18. I was just thinking filing means the bridge gets lower and you have to raise it.

[nexion218]

Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Just to make sure I understand it correctly: the excess finish in the neckpocket made the neck sit in a bad angle and that was the cause of the issues with thwe setup?