Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

[Larioso]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Looking at video - it seems that this trem does not fit you guitar well or not adjusted right.
a) it seems that bridge saddles are not right height to get the right action on strings over neck and claw goes way too much forward when in balance.
b) this also make claw too much to the side to allow movement

So maybe adjust bridge saddles so claw goes back in cavity, not all in front as now.

To me it looks that way - balance saddle height so claw goes in middle when strung up at your favorite action.
At least on my syncronized trem on strat bridge saddles goes quite a bit up and down when moving trem, pivot thingy.
As I saw video on Vegatrem site - this seems to be the case for this trem also.

[BadAspen]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Could you clarify what you mean? The bridge is set the same as when I first installed it, so it's not that the bridge doesn't fit or I don't know how to install it.

And what do you mean in your point a)? Neither my strings or saddles are in the video. Also with point b) how would setting my action affect sideways motion of the tren claw? The screws prevent sideways motion.

In short, I do not believe that string height is the problem here. Actually looking at it, the action wasn't even adjusted, so that wouldn't be a variable.

[ItsaBass]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

If I didn't describe it well, watch the video.

I never said it was "falling off", the closest I said was "falling loose", ie coming slack. I wasn't aware falling loose was an uncommon phrase.

The Vegatrem is closer in range and feel to a Floyd Rose than any other bridge I could think of. The tech that did the work on it mistook it for a Synchronized. End of story, no aggression necessary.

It was most certainly not doing this before hand. All my other strats, this one before now included squeaked. This one makes a loud "clunk".

I don’t think I need lower tension springs, as I'm sure you meant, because I've used now 4 different sets, including 2 high tension springs parallel to each other, 2 angled high tensions springs, 2 angled medium tension springs, and just to try it also a single low tension springs

Again, let me reiterate, there is no need to get aggressive, no need to tell me the problem I am having doesn't exist, no need to bash Super Vee as if it hurts me in any way.

Holy smokes. There are so many problems here, I don't even know where to begin. Gotta just jump in, I guess.

Firstly, someone pointing out where you are confusing or incorrect, after you have expressed dismay that no one is understanding what you're saying, is not "aggression." It's exactly what it is: someone telling you where you are wrong or unclear.

Now, about you saying, "I never said it was 'falling off', the closest I said was 'falling loose'..."

In the post of mine that you quoted, I quoted you saying, "[T]he issue is that when I release the tension, the claw falls off." Your words, now you claim you never said them...in response to a post in which I quoted you saying them.

Again, the bridge "operates" (your words) with very little in common with a Floyd Rose (beyond both being FUNDAMENTALLY based on the Fender unit, of course). That is a basic design fact. The Floyd has a couple of major defining characteristics: Two post/knife edge mount, locking saddles, fine tuners. The range is not a feature that is unique to a Floyd (the large range largely comes from the bridge plate height), and the "feel" that you are talking about likely comes from using only two springs.

It looks about as much like a Fender Synchronized Tremolo as a Nova looks like an Impala. Sure, they're both Chevies, with four wheels. But you can't mistake one for the other, even from across the parking lot, just as you couldn't mistake the vibrato in question for a Fender Synchronized from across the room. If your tech though it was a Fender Synchronized Tremolo, then he or she is a very ignorant tech. But we had some idea of this already, as the guitar was returned to you with the bridge plate angled rearward.

The vibrato in question is its own thing, but it's using design elements that can be seen in Super Vee and Wilkinson vibratos, far more than it is using design elements seen in a Floyd. That's a fact...and that, among other confusing, contradictory, and oddly worded statements are why people weren't grasping exactly what you were talking about. Why the explanation of such is a personal affront or "aggression" to you is something I am not even going to bother to try to figure out...but it's weird. I explained why people weren't getting it (because your statements were weird), and I followed it up with the closest thing you've had to a solution in the thread.

I did NOT mean lower tension springs. I had just said a few sentences up that "you don't need to change the number of springs or try different springs." I wrote strings, and that was what I meant. But I did write "lower" when I meant "higher" in my head. In other words, maybe your tech put lower tension strings on the guitar. I have gone back to the post and changed "lower" to "higher," to correct it.

I did not get what I would call aggressive. I told you what was wrong with your description, which I thought was why you weren't getting more useful answers. I did not tell you your problem doesn't exist. I tried to nail down exactly what it was. And I did not bash Super Vee to hurt you (how could it). I did it as an aside (I own one...unfortunately). Where you are coming up with this stuff is beyond me. But trust me; I wasn't attempting to be "aggressive" with you. I was attempting to straighten out your statements and provide a real solution. Criticism – often very detailed – is how you solve problems and make improvements. So instead of getting all hurt and upset, please go back and listen to what I was suggesting. It might work.

To get back to something in my second post, did your tech install the same strings, or at least the same string set, that you had on it when you dropped it off?

[Chistopher]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Holy smokes. There are so many problems here, I don't even know where to begin. Gotta just jump in, I guess.

Firstly, someone pointing out where you are confusing or incorrect, after you have expressed dismay that no one is understanding what you're saying, is not "aggression." It's exactly what it is: someone telling you where you are wrong or unclear.

Now, about you saying, "I never said it was 'falling off', the closest I said was 'falling loose'..."

In the post of mine that you quoted, I quoted you saying, "[T]he issue is that when I release the tension, the claw falls off." Your words, now you claim you never said them...in response to a post in which I quoted you saying them.

Again, the bridge "operates" (your words) with very little in common with a Floyd Rose (beyond both being FUNDAMENTALLY based on the Fender unit, of course). That is a basic design fact. The Floyd has a couple of major defining characteristics: Two post/knife edge mount, locking saddles, fine tuners. The range is not a feature that is unique to a Floyd (the large range largely comes from the bridge plate height), and the "feel" that you are talking about likely comes from using only two springs.

It looks about as much like a Fender Synchronized Tremolo as a Nova looks like an Impala. Sure, they're both Chevies, with four wheels. But you can't mistake one for the other, even from across the parking lot, just as you couldn't mistake the vibrato in question for a Fender Synchronized from across the room. If your tech though it was a Fender Synchronized Tremolo, then he or she is a very ignorant tech. But we had some idea of this already, as the guitar was returned to you with the bridge plate angled rearward.

The vibrato in question is its own thing, but it's using design elements that can be seen in Super Vee and Wilkinson vibratos, far more than it is using design elements seen in a Floyd. That's a fact...and that, among other confusing, contradictory, and oddly worded statements are why people weren't grasping exactly what you were talking about. Why the explanation of such is a personal affront or "aggression" to you is something I am not even going to bother to try to figure out...but it's weird. I explained why people weren't getting it (because your statements were weird), and I followed it up with the closest thing you've had to a solution in the thread.

I did NOT mean lower tension springs. I had just said a few sentences up that "you don't need to change the number of springs or try different springs." I wrote strings, and that was what I meant. But I did write "lower" when I meant "higher" in my head. In other words, maybe your tech put lower tension strings on the guitar. I have gone back to the post and changed "lower" to "higher," to correct it.

I did not get what I would call aggressive. I told you what was wrong with your description, which I thought was why you weren't getting more useful answers. I did not tell you your problem doesn't exist. I tried to nail down exactly what it was. And I did not bash Super Vee to hurt you (how could it). I did it as an aside (I own one...unfortunately). Where you are coming up with this stuff is beyond me. But trust me; I wasn't attempting to be "aggressive" with you. I was attempting to straighten out your statements and provide a real solution. Criticism – often very detailed – is how you solve problems and make improvements. So instead of getting all hurt and upset, please go back and listen to what I was suggesting. It might work.

To get back to something in my second post, did your tech install the same strings, or at least the same string set, that you had on it when you dropped it off?

I think we have a new contented for "longest post [including quotation]"

[Demanic]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Uhm, am I the only one who has noticed that there is no tension on the vibrato springs?

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

[Larioso]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Could you clarify what you mean? The bridge is set the same as when I first installed it, so it's not that the bridge doesn't fit or I don't know how to install it.

And what do you mean in your point a)? Neither my strings or saddles are in the video. Also with point b) how would setting my action affect sideways motion of the tren claw? The screws prevent sideways motion.

In short, I do not believe that string height is the problem here. Actually looking at it, the action wasn't even adjusted, so that wouldn't be a variable.

My thinking was this
a) in video in balance the claw is clearly not in middle
b) so how do I get claw in middle - move arm forward
c) but as arm is moved - height of saddles are changing
d) so guessing you are comfy now with action of strings - but arm need go forward
e) what happend if arm goes forward a bit - saddles go up or down ?
f) compensate action with how the position of arm must be to have claw in middle as tuned up

If to get claw in middle as tuned up arm goes forward a bit
a) if saddles goes up doing that - then move saddle in bridge down
b) is saddles goes down doing that - the move saddle up in bridge

And if image in my head is correct - this will make claw be in middle and your string action maintained.
And you can continue setup and hopefully movement will be enough without claw hitting either wall or springs become loose..
I think I might go for a third spring, but test your way.

On my syncronized trem in strat - the 6 screws can be used to stop movement up of arm. The is a bevel/tilt of surface at where screws are. this is different from what I see in this trem you have. So you might have to stop movement of arm as you feel you reach the end.

But balanced I think is good start, same movement each way.

[ItsaBass]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

To Demanic: ^ Exactly. Well, not "enough" tension, rather. The claw is way out....which leads me to believe that the so-called tech perhaps installed lower tension strings, causing the problem of the bridge plate leaning backwards.

[ICTGoober]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Uhm, am I the only one who has noticed that there is no tension on the vibrato springs?

I am late to the party and just watched the video... You are correct.
I haven't decided what conclusion to reach yet, except to say that trem system setup is all kinds of ****ed up.
Wish I could see the guitar....

[BadAspen]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Here's what happened from start to finish.

Guitar has D'Addario EXL116 strings and a locking nut. Everything works fine.

Headstock breaks off, screw holes in neck pocket strip, causing neck to "bow" forward. Locking nut keeps strings on guitar. I did an extensive check to see what the damages were. Nothing wrong with bridge.

Guitar tech repairs stripped neck pocket, coronavirus quarentine begins, weeks pass, guitar tech repairs headstock, offers me 30% off for the wait and throws in an extra set of EXL116s.

I check the guitar today everything is as it was before the break except the trem claw is screwed in as deep as possible. I back the screws out until I can get the bridge flush with the top and in tune.

There is no way he replaced the springs as the Vegatrem has a mechanism so you can lock the springs in place and it requires a hex key smaller than most sets offer.

[BadAspen]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Uhm, am I the only one who has noticed that there is no tension on the vibrato springs?

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

If I put any more tension on the springs the back of the bridge will sink into the body.

[ICTGoober]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

If I put any more tension on the springs the back of the bridge will sink into the body.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. It would have nice to see a picture of the actual guitar to start with. Your trem routing is deep enough to allow pulling up of the trem, so you must set it up as a balanced system.

Do you not want it to pull up? You could put a block in the back of the guitar to prevent that...

This will sound weird, but have you tried it with one spring yet? Back in the 80's I set up a Floyd for a client that required this for the system to float. The spring was really tight, as I remember.

[nexion218]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

I have zero experience with the actual Vegatrem, but are those springs supposed to be on the trem claw screws? I am sure it make most of the rattle when they push the claw back up against the screws...

[Jacew]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Like Demanic noted there should be tension on the springs. Get lower tension springs and tighten the claw so you get trem parallel to body.

Fact that you had such work done on the neck and botched trem setup of tech would make me vary enough to make sure guitar intonates properly. There's certainly something strange happened on the fix.

Also make sure all the screws are tight and properly installed on trem itself first.

Edit: Note that Vegatrem pivots around shaft, so you want trem screws hold tight on the body. Not like regular strat trem thats pivots on the screws.

[nexion218]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

I've been watching OP's vid in slo-mo for minutes now. Thos e springs on the trem claw screws still look fishy to me. Were they always there? Never seen such thing, I don't really see what the benefit would be. If you watch the video carefully, it in fact impedes the motion of the claw. First time around I suspected that that the springs push back the claw in position, but after watching it in slo-mo, it is the complete opposite. The spring stops the claw at a certain point, the the actual tremolo spring keep moving backwards due to the motion of the bridge and when the bridge is let up, the string tension violently yanks the ring of the tremolo springs against the claw and then the whole assemly against the head of the claw screw. To me, it is rather dangerous, as the rings become so loose around the claw that I'd be afraid of them coming totally unhooked with a bad move...

[dave74]

Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Have you told us your scale length, tuning, and string specific sizes/brand/model yet? It's real important to figuring out what is the problem.