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  • Les Pauls vs SGs... It must be summer

    Most of my younger guitar students get summer jobs to buy gear... Doesn't seem to be nearly as big a deal for keyboardist and bassists, but I'm getting the inevitable Les Paul verse SG questions and figured I'd write it down for posterity.

    First of all, a lot of my students need 25.5. Between country and sparkling reverb patches, we usually have this discussion up front.. of course some of the younger folks do better with shorter scales. So let's assume we are headed to 24 and 3/4 in this example.

    And before we even get to Gibson, I generate a lot more Jet and Revstar sales than Les Paul's... The return on investment wins quite often with students... And they are often the better playing guitar anyway.

    But a couple of times a summer, I get the "I have to have a Les Paul" thinking, and I usually can get these folks to start using their ears and compare and contrast with the SG.

    Of course, the lighter SG cuts and barks and really fills the middle and the high end. The neck joint it is incredibly accessible and once again they are lighter. In my mind, an SG is a fantastic second guitar in a two guitar band cause it covers so so much ground and a lot of students figure this out when they compare and contrast.

    On the other hand, the Les Paul's tend to be big fat heavy and fantastic when one guitar has to fill the entire sound canvas. However, I strongly push the bass roll off mod practically all the time. Everyone starts off playing Zeppelin and Boston licks but in the real world, the hyper bottom end is often just too muddy.

    The other factor is playing clean. So many times my students will do all their demos with crunch sounds and then realize that much of the time, they need good cleans and in between sounds.

    Of course this is mainly a pickup issue. Les Paul's and SGs can have beautiful cleans but a lot of times I'm retrofit fitting a lower output bridge pup down the road to get some flexibility.

    And this is good time to contrast live versus playing at home. There is something about that humongous big sound that really works good when you're sitting on a chair in front of a nice tube amp. With these students flexibility tends to be second to the idea of "big".

    But these are the same players that tend to muddy up a stage... Good argument for micing small amps so the engineer can thin things out.

    And again, there are so many options out there these days... I'm usually pushing Reverends although I get no kickbacks :-)

    Practically none of this is probably new to you guys... but open any stories about SGs vs Les Pauls that come to mind..










    What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

  • #2
    Gotta hand it to Gibson for making young people believe they need one. I have to say, I've never had a discussion with any students about what they need. I do ask them to explore different sounds, and when it comes down to it, pick a guitar you like.
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    • #3
      Most of my preference is feel, as the sound of a 24" scale tunamatic guitar with 2 humbuckers has only a little difference between body styles.

      So for feel, I prefer a 59-61 LP Jr or Special or 60s SG over a Les Paul every time -but thats because of hand feel on a thinner wider neck and fret access.

      Les Pauls feel overly chunky to my hand.
      “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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      • #4
        I've had different experience. I had two Les Pauls and two SGs. Les Pauls can mix just fine with other guitars, and I haven't had to change pickups to get cleans. I often use an LP on the right and a Strat on the left. The LP sits nicely inside the scoop of the Strat. They make a great stereo image. If you sink a 498T down near the ring and sink the 490R down below the ring and raise the screws so the heads just peak over the pickup cover, you can get a nice round mid PAF-ish clean sound out of them. If you raise them to stock distance and sink the screws just below the cover, they turn into scooped metal pickups.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
          I've had different experience. I had two Les Pauls and two SGs. Les Pauls can mix just fine with other guitars, and I haven't had to change pickups to get cleans. I often use an LP on the right and a Strat on the left. The LP sits nicely inside the scoop of the Strat. They make a great stereo image. If you sink a 498T down near the ring and sink the 490R down below the ring and raise the screws so the heads just peak over the pickup cover, you can get a nice round mid PAF-ish clean sound out of them. If you raise them to stock distance and sink the screws just below the cover, they turn into scooped metal pickups.
          I havent had a problem EQing to compensate for either nuance if they are on stock pickups -if you notch out some of the mids of an SG and make it a little rounder you get closer to an LP in my experience.
          “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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          • #6
            Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
            Most of my preference is feel, as the sound of a 24" scale tunamatic guitar with 2 humbuckers has only a little difference between body styles.

            So for feel, I prefer a 59-61 LP Jr or Special or 60s SG over a Les Paul every time -but thats because of hand feel on a thinner wider neck and fret access.

            Les Pauls feel overly chunky to my hand.


            Ive had maybe 7 SG's all different years the last 40 years and my 58' Jr. eats them all but i still want another SG.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JMP/HBE View Post



              Ive had maybe 7 SG's all different years the last 40 years and my 58' Jr. eats them all but i still want another SG.
              yeah, Ive never owned a 58 -but I presume its the same glory!

              Love LP Jrs and Specials and SGs over Les Pauls
              “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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              • #8
                Just talking about Gibsons and Epiphones, I like SGs but neck dive has been an issue for me. I'm also a bigger, taller person, and they feel a little small when I'm playing. Not a deal breaker - I wouldn't say no if offered one - but an SG has never seemed like a crucial guitar for me to have. The feel of a good, nicely set up LP or Explorer is exactly what I want in a guitar. Thicker body with a good amount of weight to it.

                As far as tone and mix issues and thicker Gibsons muddying up a stage, I guess I've had the opposite experience. Most everything can be solved with EQ, the right amount of gain, and mic placement, but I've been in two-guitar band situations where the Gibsons' high end was more present and more intelligible than any of the other guitars I brought with me. I recently played a 26.5 and a 25.5 with some folks in a pretty basic rehearsal setup and wound up using my trusty Explorer because of how much better it sat in the mix. Honestly night and day.
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                • #9
                  Great stories, thanks guys!

                  Mincer, I'm kind of holistic teacher and one of the things I stress is the right guitar for the gig. Of course we all know it's 90% hands and you can make anything work in the long run. But it's worth it to me to make at least one visit to the guitar stores to help them get in the ballpark.

                  Yes I have always wanted a junior... One of these days.

                  And I'm and I'm actively looking for an explorer and trying to convince one of my Les Paul wannabes that an Explorer might be a better fit.

                  Also I love the idea of a strat on one side and a Les Paul or an SG on the other. Lots of complimentary stuff mixing up there.

                  What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

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                  • #10
                    I own both. There could be other ''better'' guitars out there, but they're classics for a reason. My Gibson SG was my 2nd guitar. It provided me with my best rock band playing in years. Very woody and rocking tone at the same time. With time, I changed into LP style guitars, and haven't returned to SGs yet.

                    My recommendation (if possible) to play them both. SGs have better fret access than the LPs, but LP (to my ear) have better tone and sustain better; but again. My recommendation is for them to play them on a store. If not possible, tell them to go with the guitar that will inspire them the most. That really helps a lot, even if it sounds a little bit like a placebo. My SG was my sign of rebellion during my youth (thanks to Angus Young). I grew up and with Slash's influence, I learned LP were really more my vibe. It's all part of the process.
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                    • #11
                      While I'm mostly a single coil guy, I've never been able to get along with SGs for some reason. Les Pauls feel more comfortable to me.
                      Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

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                      • #12
                        I get the single coil thing completely. I play 75% on 25.5... they fit my hand better and I appreciate the high end snap... I can always roll off the top with the thicker sounds but can't really add them to 24.75

                        But my first good guitar was a '65 Les Paul SG and I got spoiled by that neck... Ridiculously thin and complete access all the way up the neck.

                        But I'm pretty happy with everything including Les Pauls when I need really thick tones.

                        As mentioned above, I'm looking for an explorer to get some of that neck access and some of that thickness.

                        But it's worth getting used to an SG as well... If you've got to get way up the neck and need a lot of cutting crunch, they're very hard to beat. Definitely worth borrowing one if you got a friend that's got one...

                        What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post

                          yeah, Ive never owned a 58 -but I presume its the same glory!

                          Love LP Jrs and Specials and SGs over Les Pauls


                          Nothing beats a 9+lb LP for me.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JMP/HBE View Post



                            Nothing beats a 9+lb LP for me.
                            I love LPs, but my point was my hand/finger size shape prefers lates 50s LP Jr or 60s SG and I cant really change that

                            -and feel is more important to me than the tone nuances.

                            But I do dig a heavy Guitar!
                            “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                            • #15
                              So my big Les Paul story is all about Tom Schultz... In the early 80s I was in an cover +original band that did everything from thick to classic country...

                              I didn't have a bass roll off, so I emulated every Schultz sound I could find... Obviously the thick sounds were easy, but I quickly learned that the fast, thin articulate rhythm tones required a lot of pedals.

                              Of course, the Boston signature sounds weren't useful for anything other than emulating Schultz, but I still use those thinning techniques (without all of the modulation and doubling) when I need an LP to play nice in a complex mix.

                              I also built a big mahagoney slab with a maple neck with a bass roll off... Easily goes anywhere from tele to thick LPjr and gets some growly SG going somewhere in the middle of the roll off.

                              Obviously, I love all ends of the spectrum...
                              What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

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