Gain staging pedals and effects

[dpaterson]

Re: Gain staging pedals and effects

Hell (again) everyone.

Don't I know you all from somewhere else??? LOL!!!

hitting digital with too hot of a signal can introduce digital clipping which doesn't sound good

Yeh. That's pretty much why I've been wondering about this. For one thing and as you know: I pretty much only use wireless but I'm pretty much having to guess level adjustments depending on which guitar is plugged in. One guitar may sound great with the wireless receivers output levels set, at, say 3 'o clock. But then with another guitar (the one with the DM SD in it at present for example) I have to dial back the wireless receivers output SUBSTANTIALLY otherwise everything is just "too much". So I was kinda figuring that if I could find out the exact output coming from a particular guitar using an instrument cable I could then use that as the "standard" or "yardstick" and obviously clearly mark the different levels for each guitar on the wireless receivers. Dunno if that makes sense. And I also never know if a signal is being clipped or not (only the wireless receivers inform me of this if the gain on the transmitter for a particular guitar is set too high).

I run certain pedals at Unity through them and others smacked with elevated gain on the front end front the previous pedals boost depending on how the pedal reacts, what sound I'm trying to achieve through the output, if I'm switching the pedal in and out (if so how does the buffer headroom interact) and ultimately what level about unity do I need at the pre amp input of an amplifier.

At the end of the chain, I have an Xotic EP booster in line (for an always on boost) to hit my Tremelo with a very high level because it performs and sounds better.

At the front of the chain I use a Greer Lamplighter compressor and hit it with an Archer IKON Gold or and an MXR Custom Badass -The compressor knocks the boost down but makes it super fat.

I run Unity through the Boss GE-7 and through modulation effects

Again yet another reason for me wondering about this. A supposed unity gain setting on one pedal is not the same as on another. Like with the Boss GE-7: unity gain as far as I know is when the level slider is in the middle (pretty hard to muck that one up). But like with the Boss DD-7 it is SUPPOSED to be at 3 'o clock but I dunno if I trust that information to be honest (because it doesn't "click in" like with the GE-7).

Also and with my amps. what I've found is that if you lift, for example, a certain frequency on the DD-7 then you have to compensate by lowering the output level i.e. with my amps. they seem to interpret a frequency boost as being "a frequency boost PLUS a increase in input level" which increases distortion proportionately.

I have only done it with tube amps and have gotten some stellar results. I always play with some type of overdrive/distortion and a boost of some type. I think the king of gain staging is The Rev Billy, he has a very intresting signal chain.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]94515[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]94514[/ATTACH]

As you say: that is a pretty interesting signal chain!!! LOL!!! And I thought I was complicating matters!!! LOL!!!



Suppose what I'm getting at (and dunno if this is done hence my asking) is that if I could gain stage the (few) pedals that I have i.e. so that the given initial output from the guitar doesn't increase (or decrease for that matter) after each pedal no matter whether the pedal is off or on. Then when I want boost I boost on the amps. themselves (which have their own footcontrollers which are independent of the stompbox chain). This should keep the amp. distortion and any possible clipping "in check" not???

Regards,

Dale.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Gain staging pedals and effects

Just by ear. Some pedals/effects I want unity, others I want boost. I use tube amps that respond favorably to increased input level. When I had modeling amps, they hated being boosted and I found I got the best sounds by simply tweaking the built in effects as opposed to using external effects.

In terms of different outputs for different guitars, I asked this several years ago and the overwhelming response was “that’s why I use different guitars, to sound different.” Now I might put an EP Booster at the beginning of the chain to slightly fatten and boost a low output Strat, but for the most part it’s plug it in and go. That might go back to the previous point, my primary amp is a Princeton Reverb, pretty easy to get compressing so there isn’t much of a volume difference between guitars, more of a tonal difference.

[Securb]

Re: Gain staging pedals and effects

I have only done it with tube amps and have gotten some stellar results. I always play with some type of overdrive/distortion and a boost of some type. I think the king of gain staging is The Rev Billy, he has a very intresting signal chain.

[NegativeEase]

Re: Gain staging pedals and effects

I run certain pedals at Unity through them and others smacked with elevated gain on the front end from the previous pedal's boost depending on how the pedal reacts, what sound I'm trying to achieve through the output, if I'm switching the pedal in and out (if so how does the buffer headroom interact) and ultimately what level above the unity level through modulation do I need at the pre amp input of an amplifier.

At the end of the chain, I have an Xotic EP booster in line (for an always on boost) to hit my Tremelo with a very high level because it performs and sounds better.

At the front of the chain I use a Greer Lamplighter compressor and hit it with an Archer IKON Gold or and an MXR Custom Badass -The compressor knocks the boost down but makes it super fat.

I run Unity through the Boss GE-7 and through modulation effects

[devastone]

Re: Gain staging pedals and effects

I'm not currently, I have heard of it being done. The thing to remember is that it works really well to hit the front end of a tube amp really hard to get it to compress more and it sounds good (most of the time), hitting digital with too hot of a signal can introduce digital clipping which doesn't sound good unless you are Trent Reznor.

[dpaterson]

Hi.

Just curious if anybody gain stages their pedals and effects (as you would, or SHOULD anyway, with plug-ins in your DAW)???

If there a point to even attempting to do this???

Using something like this maybe:

In other words: is there a point to ensuring that the input/output levels throughout the chain remain constant (unless you are specifically adding boost at some given point in the chain)???

Does anybody do this???

I suppose the main reason I ask is because I have modelling amps. (Marshall CODE amps.) and they are EXTREMELY susceptible to even the slightest change in input levels (affects distortion and gain hugely). And if you've got three different guitars all with different pickups and output levels well, then, it can become "challenging" (for want of a better word).

I have spent some time looking around the Internet but the info. out there seems a bit "iffy" (again for want of a better word).

Regards,

Dale.