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  • Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

    Hey guys - been reading and reflecting; Pickup requests, mag swaps, tone wiz, etc...

    I am going to throw this out on the floor for reasonable discussion, with the intent of making the Pickup lounge a better place for everyone. Lately, we have seen some trends in pickup advice that are, IMO, not the greatest things for the Duncan consumer and consummate tone seeker. I'm not putting this out there to smack down anyone - just saying it does us all good to take a moment to reflect. I'm going to throw some things down, and make some suggestions for a general pickup decorum - particularly when dealing with new guys.

    Here are a few examples, and all of us are guilty of these things from time to time (or a lot of the time).
    - Recommending our favorite pickup all the time
    - Recommending pickups based on what we have heard about it as if you own it
    - Recommending pickups for guitars which you don't/haven't owned
    - The automatic Mag Swap response
    - Not directly answering the OP's question
    - Making recs ONLY based on a request for a pickup
    - Saying a pickup, mag, or whatever is too trebly/middy/loose, cold, etc....

    I can go on - but you get the picture. This sort of stuff honestly does nothing to really help a person get the advice they need. All it does is present opinions as facts, disregard the subtle complexities of tone, and most likely give either bad advice, or worse, turn people off to the place. So, may I suggest the following decorum when making suggestions - particularly of new arrivals here (whether new to pup swaps, etc or not)

    #1 Answer the question directly. If someone wants a recommended set of pots for a single coil, or a Loud hum,bucker - by all means either give an answer, or immediately ask for more info. They didn't ask to be interviewed, chastised or anything else. Just answer the question. I know that is counter to what the rest of this will say, but it is polite.

    #2 Try to always find out what is "lacking" in the current tone: Too much/too little bas/mids/treble/output etc... Let's be honest - without this info, you know nothing about the "ear of the beholder" and are just shooting in the dark. It's about what makes them happy - not you!

    #3 Please always remember, the gear and the guitar are important. A Pearly Gates in an Ash/Maple Strat through A Fender Twin with no fx is a wayyyyy different beast than in a all mahogany/rosewood Les Paul Studio through a Boss ME-50 into a Marshall half stack. It might or might not be the right answer depending on the gear and the issue in #2. I have seen way too many just flat out recs, followed by this question about amp and guitar and even style of play, and then complete reversals of suggestions. Nothing but confusing.

    #4 Let's be judicious about recommending EITHER a mag swap or a pup swap. I have experienced the joys of the a8, and of losing a junk pickup. There is a time and place for each. You can't turn a Yugo into a Ferrari by swapping wheels. Then again, there may be nothing wrong with your Yugo except that it needs new tires. Let's not go mag swap crazy out of the gate, often people just have the wrong frickin' pickup. But let's not change pickups like they are underwear. The are expensive and time consuming lingerie. Let's try to get it right out of the gate, and let's seriously consider the ease and benefit of the mag swap. As always - the Duncan exchange policy rules.

    #4.5 As always - let's encourage learning to do this stuff. Skills oveexcessive tech charges anyway!

    #5 PLEASE be sure to clarify your specific experience. I'll often state a comment about a pickup that is clearly relevant - but I'll also state that I had the pup in a particulalr guitar. YMMV is king - but only if clarify what your actual experience was.

    #6 I'm ok with people who say "I have heard" or "I have read a lot about" etc... No need to require personal experience only. However - be sure to clarify that is the case.

    #7 If you have any personal preferences - be sure to state that is the case. Example; I really like a 300k pot with a ceramic humbucker in the bridge. But don't just flat out say 300k is best. "usually people use a 500k with a hum bucker. I prefer the stock 300k Gibson pots" Again - it's your OPINION, not a fact usually, and everyones ears are different. One mans dull highs are anthers fat and buttery leads, or strident vs screaming.

    Just throwing it out there. Discuss.
    Originally posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

  • #2
    Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

    Ace, good points and I agree that you should not talk about a pickup (or anything else) without qualifying your experience i.e. in what guitar, through what amp etc. On the other hand you could argue that any discussion about tone is pretty pointless - you could come and listen to me play my pickups in my guitar through my amp and hear something totally different to what I'm hearing. It's fun to talk about this stuff but so subjective that meaningful discussion is almost impossible.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

      i try and do many or all of those things

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

        Common sense advice fo sure
        Warmoth Group @ Flickr : SDUGF group @ SoundCloud : Basic Guitar Setup

        Blog @ Izdihar.com : Pics @ Flickr

        I dream of a better world, where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

          Good points, but . . . you can look at any forum in two different lights:

          1. A tech seminar.
          2. A speak-easy where everyone and anyone is sipping there favorite libation and casually talking about their favorite subject.
          One or more participants might be on their eleventy-seventh shot.

          I like to position myself somewhere in between.

          I believe it's up to the OP to determine who's who in the pecking order, so to speak. In other words, sense the mood.

          Artie

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

            No doubt everywhere runs a range. Just saying that as we go through our day - let's just take pause for a moment and try to do the right thing.

            I know I shoot some "eleventh-seventh" shot info out there sometimes. And when dealing with the usual guys at the bar - that's cool. But when dealing with visitors / newer dudes; Important to be on our best behavior (And I'm looking in the mirror and telling myself that too!).

            This is honestly, IMO (see what I did there?) one the best - if not THE best tone advice places on the entire intarweb.

            Let's keep it that way.
            Originally posted by Bad City
            He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

              Whatever, dude...Friend of mine put a rough cast Alnico 4 in his 498T, said you could play anything on it. Great for all styles, in a Les Paul or a Strat, wouldn't matter.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                Originally posted by Aceman View Post
                Hey guys - been reading and reflecting; Pickup requests, mag swaps, tone wiz, etc...

                I am going to throw this out on the floor for reasonable discussion, with the intent of making the Pickup lounge a better place for everyone. Lately, we have seen some trends in pickup advice that are, IMO, not the greatest things for the Duncan consumer and consummate tone seeker. I'm not putting this out there to smack down anyone - just saying it does us all good to take a moment to reflect. I'm going to throw some things down, and make some suggestions for a general pickup decorum - particularly when dealing with new guys.

                Here are a few examples, and all of us are guilty of these things from time to time (or a lot of the time).
                - Recommending our favorite pickup all the time
                - Recommending pickups based on what we have heard about it as if you own it
                - Recommending pickups for guitars which you don't/haven't owned
                - The automatic Mag Swap response
                - Not directly answering the OP's question
                - Making recs ONLY based on a request for a pickup
                - Saying a pickup, mag, or whatever is too trebly/middy/loose, cold, etc....

                I can go on - but you get the picture. This sort of stuff honestly does nothing to really help a person get the advice they need. All it does is present opinions as facts, disregard the subtle complexities of tone, and most likely give either bad advice, or worse, turn people off to the place. So, may I suggest the following decorum when making suggestions - particularly of new arrivals here (whether new to pup swaps, etc or not)

                #1 Answer the question directly. If someone wants a recommended set of pots for a single coil, or a Loud hum,bucker - by all means either give an answer, or immediately ask for more info. They didn't ask to be interviewed, chastised or anything else. Just answer the question. I know that is counter to what the rest of this will say, but it is polite.

                #2 Try to always find out what is "lacking" in the current tone: Too much/too little bas/mids/treble/output etc... Let's be honest - without this info, you know nothing about the "ear of the beholder" and are just shooting in the dark. It's about what makes them happy - not you!

                #3 Please always remember, the gear and the guitar are important. A Pearly Gates in an Ash/Maple Strat through A Fender Twin with no fx is a wayyyyy different beast than in a all mahogany/rosewood Les Paul Studio through a Boss ME-50 into a Marshall half stack. It might or might not be the right answer depending on the gear and the issue in #2. I have seen way too many just flat out recs, followed by this question about amp and guitar and even style of play, and then complete reversals of suggestions. Nothing but confusing.

                #4 Let's be judicious about recommending EITHER a mag swap or a pup swap. I have experienced the joys of the a8, and of losing a junk pickup. There is a time and place for each. You can't turn a Yugo into a Ferrari by swapping wheels. Then again, there may be nothing wrong with your Yugo except that it needs new tires. Let's not go mag swap crazy out of the gate, often people just have the wrong frickin' pickup. But let's not change pickups like they are underwear. The are expensive and time consuming lingerie. Let's try to get it right out of the gate, and let's seriously consider the ease and benefit of the mag swap. As always - the Duncan exchange policy rules.

                #4.5 As always - let's encourage learning to do this stuff. Skills oveexcessive tech charges anyway!

                #5 PLEASE be sure to clarify your specific experience. I'll often state a comment about a pickup that is clearly relevant - but I'll also state that I had the pup in a particulalr guitar. YMMV is king - but only if clarify what your actual experience was.

                #6 I'm ok with people who say "I have heard" or "I have read a lot about" etc... No need to require personal experience only. However - be sure to clarify that is the case.

                #7 If you have any personal preferences - be sure to state that is the case. Example; I really like a 300k pot with a ceramic humbucker in the bridge. But don't just flat out say 300k is best. "usually people use a 500k with a hum bucker. I prefer the stock 300k Gibson pots" Again - it's your OPINION, not a fact usually, and everyones ears are different. One mans dull highs are anthers fat and buttery leads, or strident vs screaming.

                Just throwing it out there. Discuss.
                I appreciate this. On many levels.
                I have noticed more din to filter through and certainly more 'this is the way it is advice' around right now. Its all good.

                I know that at some point, tone becomes a game of inches and then 1/4"s and then pure subtle detail. I love the details, they are personal and that is all we really have and truly believe that is what we all seek...eventually. in the meantime it isn't always easy to know where someone is in that quest. We often find differences over which PART of the story to focus on when we reply.

                Qualifying the OP is never a slam-dunk. Noob? OK but in what sense? Pro? OK but in pickup swapping or just tonal experience or just playing? The hard one is the Pro Noob. Knows everything about everything. As for the replies, they are always all over the board. Very few have actual experience with so much that is regurgitated...but as is the nature of a forum. Its all good. Avoiding the positionality, defensive attacks on who is right etc. is the key. Its much easier to leave conversations to avoid the wrath of the tone righteous or expert wiring dude who uses henries, cable capacitance and wire gauge history to tell you how much your tone will suck...yet hasn't actually 'plugged er in'

                I do my best not to assume anything in regards to anyone elses experience if I am living in my right mindset. I just don't know what I don't know.
                With tone, it is all valid. The only truly invalid response is the rigid, 'this is the only way' reply.

                Basic respect should be given to everyone and goes a long way.

                Aceman, I love the intent of your post. Cheers and thanks!!

                Much Respect,

                Rodney Gene
                Rodney Gene Junior - My Artist Page And Gear Affiliations Austin Texas

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                  Got some very good points there, Ace. #4 in particular caught my attention. When I posted my first thread seeking new pups for my SG, a couple people suggested mag swaps. I don't feel that was very good advice for someone who hadn't even touched a soldering iron at that point. I found the people saying (for example) "a Distortion might work for what you're after" to be a LOT more helpful.
                  My band: VISIBLY INVISIBLE

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                    Good points. We all have to remember that tone is not only relevant (to woods, shapes, strings, amps, etc), but is also totally subjective..."eyes (ears) of the beholder". Tough to deal with such a subjective quality.
                    Originally Posted by IanBallard
                    Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                      The thread opener might be the best Aceman post I've ever read. And he's definitely a top forum member. In fact, this might be a sticky-worthy thread.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                        It's not my fault I'm always right....
                        nobody loves me but my mama... and she could be jivin' too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                          Translation: Aceman wants blueman335 to STFU
                          Band: www.colouredanimal.com
                          Twitter: www.twitter.com/mrperki
                          Blorg: mrperki.tumblr.com

                          Read my Seymour Duncan blog posts

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                            Originally posted by ratherdashing View Post
                            Translation: Aceman wants blueman335 to STFU
                            That too, of course. But Rick is also one of the master Mag Swap Guru's. I know him enough, and have played enough A2 mag pups in LP's to know the difference between his ear/tastes and mine. But that's me.

                            I also know that there are definitely situations where a mag swap would be perfect, that I'm not going to recommend because I don't know enough about it. But someone who does should.

                            And there are probably a lot of times that a new amp should be recommended before a pup or swap.
                            Originally posted by Bad City
                            He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Let's take our pickup advice game up a few notches

                              Originally posted by frankfalbo View Post
                              Whatever, dude...Friend of mine put a rough cast Alnico 4 in his 498T, said you could play anything on it. Great for all styles, in a Les Paul or a Strat, wouldn't matter.
                              I'm pretty sure Frank forgot the little smiley face thing after that.

                              If not, A4 in a 498, Strat or LP??? Hey Frank - this @$$, right here? Kiss it. You went unplugged anyway. This room is for ELECTRIC players spruce boy. Real men of Rock. Not real sensitive dudes trying to woo a maiden in the tower or whatever....

                              (Honestly, I myself have said that the 498 is an ok all around pup. Not the best for anything, but capable of everything with the right amp. Honestly, no need for the swap IMO.)
                              Originally posted by Bad City
                              He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                              Comment

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