Vitamin Q 0.022

[darthphineas]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

I don't see the humor.

K.


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[Big Flannel]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

K.


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K.

[Securb]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

So....can I rip out all of the good components in my guitars and fill them with bargain basement electronics or should I reserve that honor for just my highend axes? You know the ones with the pesky quality caps, wiring and pots.

Just wait until I get my hands on the sales guy that sold me the paper-in-oil cap for my Tele.

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but I'm just going on my experience with my local store. The same guy has been running it for at least 15 years or more and he's always seemed appreciative of my business. I've never had a problem with any of their parts, either.

Lots of people say Radio Shack components are cheap quality, but few people are ever specific. It's a non issue these days, anyway. The last time I visited a Radio Shack, all the electronic components had been stuffed into a few small drawers in a back corner of the store.

I've actually been able to crumble a few Radioshack ceramic capacitors with just my fingers. Those capacitors really do suck, and they have the audacity to charge you $3 for a mere two POS capacitors that aren't worth more than a few cents.

I don't know if I'm more surprised that you thought to crush a capacitor with your fingers, or that you would consider it's ability to resist crushing an important indicator of quality.

[Securb]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

I don't know if I'm more surprised that you thought to crush a capacitor with your fingers, or that you would consider it's ability to resist crushing an important indicator of quality.

Personally I stress test all parts before putting them in a project. It is a good practice.

[Big Flannel]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

I don't know if I'm more surprised that you thought to crush a capacitor with your fingers, or that you would consider it's ability to resist crushing an important indicator of quality.

The way I see it, caps are alot like tires. Cheap tires may get you where you need to go, but if you have the money to spend there is no reason not to buy tires with better tread that are higher mileage.

You know what I mean?

[frankfalbo]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Some people believe the dielectric type makes a difference the human ear can detect, some believe it doesn't, but ultimately one side must right and the other must be wrong, we just don't know who is right and who is wrong at thus juncture.

No that is a totally false statement. When the first wax reel music players came out, people said they were shocked because they were so realistic it was like the person was in the room with them. If you listened to them today, you would disagree, and neither of you would be wrong. It is based on the hardware on your head and the software in between. It's relative.

I am one of those who has done the listening tests, and without the bias toward expense. In fact, you could argue that I would have been listening to justify the lower cost capacitors for use in OEM manufacturing. Now the reality is I listen with no bias, always. But that's not important.

I have heard a difference, unrelated to slight value shifts. How do I know? Because you can test on either side of the part and see if the behavioral shift follows the dielectric or the value. In other words, get three PIO caps, .022 dead on tolerance, and one on either side of tolerance by a bit. Then get a ceramic disc that is dead on to the target .022 PIO. Listen to the control against all three PIO variables and you'll hear (or not hear) the difference between the two that are dead on target. To truly understand it is a longer experiment, but I can tell you that I can hear the differences, and feel the differences across the dynamic range, the attack, etc.

If someone else, for the life of them, with their ears pressed up against the amp can NOT hear the difference, it doesn't make my statement false. It means it is beyond their ability to hear and I trust their honesty in that. Suffice it to say, if a graph or chart plots the two as identical, I couldn't care less, because it would just mean they haven't created the right kind of test. It's not just frequency response, there can be differences in phase linearity and the transient response that their test is not picking up. The audio exercise, and especially music creation that includes a bio-feedback loop to the human being is not (and never is) just a frequency response curve.

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

This is funny, because a) you're criticizing my having bought a Seymour Duncan product b) unlike capacitors, it's a unique item, and c) I even stated it was an exceptional circumstance.

Yeah it sure is.
A unique item; It's an overblown fuzz box /clone basically.

I'm not critisizing, that's your interpretation.

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Yeah it sure is.
A unique item; It's an overblown fuzz box /clone basically..

OK, what's it a clone of?

[Big Flannel]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

OK, what's it a clone of?

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

OK, what's it a clone of?

Yes, it uses the same chip as found in the 808 - the 4558.

That's TS808

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

No that is a totally false statement. When the first wax reel music players came out, people said they were shocked because they were so realistic it was like the person was in the room with them. If you listened to them today, you would disagree, and neither of you would be wrong. It is based on the hardware on your head and the software in between. It's relative.

That would be a subjective assessment, though, because you're referencing the thing which would detect the phenomenon, a human being and their ears, and not the phenomenon itself. Whether there actually is a real difference or not, without respect to our ability to detect and/or hear it, is objectively either true or false. Like... if a tree falls in the forest, it does in fact make a sound, even if nobody is around to hear it.

... it would just mean they haven't created the right kind of test. It's not just frequency response, there can be differences in phase linearity and the transient response that their test is not picking up.

That's why I make no claims to certainty. I'm aware that typical response curve graphs doesn't account for time and variable input amplitude, which is also true when measuring the response of pickups.

It's actually not the response curve graphs that makes me lean towards believing there not being a perceptible difference, but the lack of identifiable reasons for why there should be a difference. I could take people who say they hear a difference on their word, but I can't expect than anyone else to, I can't treat personal testimony it as though were the same as fact.

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

That's TS808

A) there's more to an overdrive than an op amp

B) It actually uses an MC33178 https://forum.seymourduncan.com/show...=1#post3676781

[frankfalbo]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

That would be a subjective assessment, though, because you're referencing the thing which would detect the phenomenon, a human being and their ears, and not the phenomenon itself. Whether there actually is a real difference or not, without respect to our ability to detect and/or hear it, is objectively either true or false.

Then by that logic, it is absolutely 100% true that there is a difference that (some) humans can hear, and the burden is on the test methods to quantify it. That is, unless you don't have faith in my sensory perception. I guess sometimes believing requires a little faith!

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Then by that logic, it is absolutely 100% true that there is a difference that (some) humans can hear, and the burden is on the test methods to quantify it. That is, unless you don't have faith in my sensory perception. I guess sometimes believing requires a little faith!

I'd like to set up a capacitor and pickup test that varies the amplitude and measures over time. It might now reveal anything, but if it does, that would really be something. I will be sad if I ever discover that PIO really is somehow better, because it will be hard to cram six of them in my veratone Strats.