Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Now we're talking business here!!!

Thanks for all the info.

I'll just pop out and buy some JCM800 heads and cabs. then shall I??? LOL??? (FORTUNATELY I already have the SD-1!!! LOL!!!).

At this point: I'd be very happy with your DAW version to be quite frank (put it through my PA).

How much of a difference does this "UA 2-610 (tube mic/line-in preamp)" make. What does it actually do??? And could this be the reason why generally I get such thin sound when I plug straight into my audio interface (Scarlett 18i8)???

Got BIAS AMP 2 but NO problem getting BIAS FX if that's what's needed.

IRs and EQ and Reverb no problem (got tons of this sh*t).

YOU ARE THE MAN and thanks very much!!!

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

No problem about hitting the strings hard. I go through picks like it's not funny. Actually cheeses me off. They're not cheap these thick Dunlop things. But the points wear off in like a day (like maybe after an hour or two). And trying to sharpen them using that old carpet trick doesn't work as it changes the shape and size of the pick. So if anybody knows of picks that LAST then lemme know. Been contemplating whether or not those Titanium picks are worth the cost and effort (logic tells me they should stay sharp and last but apparently there is always an oily film associated with them).

I use the UA 2-610 for mic'ing but has 2x line ins as well. I could just use the EMU-1820m (computer interface) input with my guitar and I'd get similar results.

I would definitely say UA 2-610 not needed; for me (and no way to conclusively prove it) I think it helps more with the "tube amp feel" more than anything.

BIAS AMP 2 should have a JCM800 model... but I don't BIAS AMP 2. Don't see why they wouldn't have a JCM800 model.

BOSS DS-1 (or VST version of it) necessary for Holy Diver album guitar tone accuracy, IMO.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Jeepers!!! Lightbulb moment!!!


Here's a possible TEMPORARY solution:


Guitar (DM SD or SD Invader) (you all know the story well by now)
|
Audio Interface
|
VSTs (BIAS FX and/or whatever else is needed) (thanks again LLL)
|
Stereo Out from Audio Interface to L + R Marshall CODE50 L + R (amps. on CLEAN settings i.e. all FX bypassed) (either by instrument in with reamper to convert line level to instrument level OR by line in on the amps.)


OR


Guitar (DM SD or SD Invader) (you all know the story well by now)
|
Audio Interface
|
VSTs (BIAS FX and/or whatever else is needed) (thanks again LLL)
|
Stereo Out to Mixer to PA


Potential pitfalls:

Latency (although I can get down to 1ms and even slightly less without glitches depending of course on CPU load at the time).

Unwanted coloring of the tone by the amps. (although because no effects are in use no problem with VST EQ and noise levels should be fine too as no amp. gain or distortion being used). On the other hand: the amps. and cabs. may give the VST tone a bit of an "amp. tone".


By no means elegant. And would not trust the reliability of this config. for live. But hell: maybe I can really get some Dio/Campbell stuff down and at very least record it for posterity. Sure would make me feel very good about life in general I can tell ya!!! LOL!!!


Regards,

Dale.

Alternatively using physical gear:

guitar
|
BOSS DS-1
|
JCM800 (or similar) loaded down, lined out
|
10 Band stompbox EQ or if rack, 32-band rack EQ (for post-powertube tone shaping)
|
power amp
|
speakers (Celestion G12-65s or similar)

[51501984]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Yes I do! Good memory!!
I LOVE it.
I just bought a Friedman buxom boost for it. It’s the single best addition to my signal chain yet. It’s an amazing pedal. I’d highly recommend it.

I see you over at the Splawn forums . I was using the Buxom Boost for a while , definitely a killer versatile boost. Right now for boosts I'm using a Seymour Duncan 805 and a Spark Boost mini

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I see you over at the Splawn forums . I was using the Buxom Boost for a while , definitely a killer versatile boost. Right now for boosts I'm using a Seymour Duncan 805 and a Spark Boost mini

I didn’t know you were on the Splawn board...what’s your name there?

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I use the UA 2-610 for mic'ing but has 2x line ins as well. I could just use the EMU-1820m (computer interface) input with my guitar and I'd get similar results.

I would definitely say UA 2-610 not needed; for me (and no way to conclusively prove it) I think it helps more with the "tube amp feel" more than anything.

BIAS AMP 2 should have a JCM800 model... but I don't BIAS AMP 2. Don't see why they wouldn't have a JCM800 model.

BOSS DS-1 (or VST version of it) necessary for Holy Diver album guitar tone accuracy, IMO.

Still using that cheap ass EMU soundcard? I ditched mine two years ago and replaced it with Steinberg UR824; no glitches, no conflict with the motherboard and all that crap.
I think it's just ridiculous that you pair a super expensive UA tube preamp with that ancient history EMU.

[beaubrummels]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

This thread is hitting the status of EVH tone threads back in 2011 & 2012 LOL

When it takes 155 essay-length posts to ‘nail’ the tone on “Rainbow in the Dark”, this forum has just been slow-trolled all the way back to 1983.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Still using that cheap ass EMU soundcard? I ditched mine two years ago and replaced it with Steinberg UR824; no glitches, no conflict with the motherboard and all that crap.

Aside from a cap job I did last year (3 of the power supply caps), it's worked flawlessly throughout its 15 year history.
Never had any glitches nor mobo conflicts - running at 2ms latency.

I think it's just ridiculous that you pair a super expensive UA tube preamp with that ancient history EMU.

For a pro-sumer piece of gear, it's always sounded great. It used the same DACs as were found in the ProTools systems of the time.

It wasn't that cheap when it came out, either - about $500 (1820m version - "m" designating "mastering grade"). The breakout box
has a ton of connections too. Awesome product for an awesome price.

Anyhoo, regardless of the price of whatever gear, if it sounds good, it is good.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

When it takes 155 essay-length posts to ‘nail’ the tone on “Rainbow in the Dark”, this forum has just been slow-trolled all the way back to 1983.

And yet no one's pressing your face up to the monitor forcing you to read it.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Good morning all.

When it takes 155 essay-length posts to ‘nail’ the tone on “Rainbow in the Dark”, this forum has just been slow-trolled all the way back to 1983.

If that's all you got from this thread then oh well.........

Anyway. Moving the f*ck on.


@LLL

Thanks again for your efforts and for sharing.

BIAS AMP 2 does have a "British Lead 800" amp. and you have a choice of Celestion IRs. But there's way too many variables. And it sure don't sound anything like what you have put together. But no worries. As I said: temporary solution for me (not tried it yet though but shall do so shortly).


@51501984 and @Gtrjunior

I'd never even heard of Splawn until reading your posts and looking them up. Not half bad lemme tell ya. Checked out their website and watched/listened to some of those videos. "Sounds like JCM800 to me". Pretty sure they're not available locally though. But that's never stopped me!!! LOL!!! Certainly food for thought. If nothing else: nice to know about them.


@freefrog

Very interesting (Viv's take on wireless). Ironic though (this in spite of my initial thoughts on the subject): my tone is actually better with my wireless system than it is with cable (this after extensive testing). It seems to somehow be "compressing" the guitar signal and it also seems to be making up for (possible???) shortcomings in the amp. tone. Go figure.

Took a bit of a step back yesterday (from the threads and everything else) and listened to some stuff that I'd recorded. Must say that my tone ain't half bad now (with the DM SD in parallel that is). Not 1983/1984 Dio/Campbell. If I were forced to categorise my tone right now: I'd say it's closer to Tony Iommi with Dio in Heaven and Hell (the band that is). Listen to the song "Bible Black". That's where I'm at thus far upon close scrutiny late yesterday and last night. Nothing to complain about or be unhappy about let's face it. Matter of fact I could even afford to take some tops down and notch resonance up a tad.


Anyways. SD Invader on its way I'm told this morning. Will test and then decide and then wrap this all up. All good.

Thanks everyone.

Chat soonest.

Regards,

Dale.

[freefrog]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

@freefrog

Very interesting (Viv's take on wireless). Ironic though (this in spite of my initial thoughts on the subject): my tone is actually better with my wireless system than it is with cable (this after extensive testing). It seems to somehow be "compressing" the guitar signal and it also seems to be making up for (possible???) shortcomings in the amp. tone. Go figure.

Please, remember that none of my answers has never been supposed to criticize your choices and tastes : even implicitely, it's not the case. All my posts are mere humble attempts to reply to your initial issue: the lack of juicy mids (if I've understood correctly).

I totally understand why the tone of a passive pickup can appear as "better" through a transmitter: if it avoids cable capacitance, it just sends a purer, clearer and even stronger signal to the amp or pedalboard. Just like in the YT vid dedicated to the "Zerocap cable", which does exactly the same thing.

I also know for a fact what I've tried to explain in this thread somewhere above: the absence of cable capacitance gives more sparkle/ crispness... but defeats more or less this soft mid centric sonic envelope that you appear to search.

SIDE NOTES:
1-Several of my own guitars contain home made circuits that I've designed to obtain higher pitched resonant peaks... and I use sometimes ultra low capacitance cable (or even a home made preamp directly plugged in the output jack). So I don't necessarily "swear" by highly capacitive wires... but I'm still glad to have switchable capacitive loads to soften my Strats when I plug them in my Marshall (which is not a digital one, as a matter of fact);
2-Saturday night, I've played as a guest with a band whose musicians were all using basic radio transmitters. Even though the guitarist had P90 style pickups, a crowded tone shaping pedalboard and a theoretically dark sounding combo, his tone was super bright... without much mids. I can't claim to have been surprised.

FWIW : probably less than 2 cents despite (or because of) the "essay length" of this new post - LOL!... :-)

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hi freefrog.

Thanks very much (as always) for the reply and the info.

I've just ordered pickup wire and 270kΩ and 470kΩ resistors (1/4 watt / 5% tolerance). Are these resistors correct for testing purposes (simulating tone pot)???

I hope you get this message soon because I forgot to order caps. What caps. should I order to simulate, say, a 3ft. and a 5ft. guitar cable (I'll try find your other post on this but if you could just let me know quick so that I can add the caps. to my order).

Thanks again.

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

No rush. Amazon will not ship caps. here for some reason. Love it when you go through the whole order process only then at the end to be told "sorry". Will have to get them locally. But yeh: lemme know what caps. I can try to simulate the capacitance of say a 3ft., 5ft, and 10ft. guitar cable. I found your other post so just checking i.e. in that post you do say that a 900pF cap. should simulate the capacitance of a 20ft. guitar cable. Is that correct (I can just divide that capacitance value for shorter lengths if it's correct).

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

BIAS AMP 2 does have a "British Lead 800" amp. and you have a choice of Celestion IRs. But there's way too many variables. And it sure don't sound anything like what you have put together. But no worries.

Yep - British Lead 800. They pulled that over to BIAS AMP 2 then.

I kept the VST amp stock (no tweaking) and used it like I do a real Marshall: dimed on everything w/ bass control off.

I used Celestion G12-65s however for the speaker iR.

Gotta have that BOSS DS-1 in front

And the real key is the EQ shaping "at the console" after the virtual amp & speaker. I've been trying to get more precise versus my last contribution.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

You seriously mean to tell me you can get it closer (more precise)??? LOL!!!

Busy downloading BIAS FX now to see what gives. Not sure if the demo will provide the Celestion IRs but I must say that BIAS support is very accommodating so I’m sure they’ll help out if needs be. No point in trying with BIAS AMP 2 as it doesn’t have the pedal. Just wanna be careful here is all. None of these things have done much for me I’m afraid and I have spent a small fortune on all of them. But hey: if it works nice and I get YOUR tone (forget Vivian!!! LOL!!!) well then no problem and I will cough the $$$ no problem. Must say that the BIAS stuff in possibly the best. No idea why everybody banged on about Amplitube. Guitar Rig is alright. Still. That little JamVOX thing for $99 amazes me. Right out of the box you get useable stereo tones. Oh and the WAVES PRS Supermodels. They pretty darn good. WAVES GTR 3??? Hmmmnnn... Dunno. But I have to be honest and say I have not given that much time to all of these things (certainly nowhere near the time I have put into my amp. settings). I get too frustrated and impatient with them i.e. if I cannot get an even half decent tone right out the of the gate then I lose interest (and 99% of all of the factory the presets in these things are abhorrent and that’s being kind).

What settings are you using for the distortion pedal??? I know with the actual physical overdrive pedal it works alright with the drive being just about minimum and tone in the middle (with my amps. that is) (although the CODE’s built in Guv’nor distortion is much nicer).

But hey. Thanks for all your trouble. Damn decent of you.

Regards,

Dale.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.


@LLL

I just noticed something in the "shopping list":

Double tracked (naturally) - panned wide L & R.

Are you saying that you double tracked this???


Also this Waves plugin:

Waves EQ Classic (32 band EQ... tweaked by ear)

Only Waves EQ I can find is the Waves "GEQ Graphic Equalizer" (30 band) (although I do have a bunch of other EQ plugins but was just wondering is all).


Regards,

Dale.

[NegativeEase]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Ok, I watched the video.

That sounds like a familiar big rock sound (ala Iron Maiden vein)

I'd go Strat with Dimarzio Super Distortion into either a TS, BOSS OD, MXR + or RAT pedal -but using them primarily for the gain boost without saturating the sound with the drive so that you hit the input of a Marshall 100W with a ton of pretty clear but boosted tone and let the Marshall dirty it up dramatically and out to some 75W Celestions.

That's what it sounds like to me.

Oh yeah, forgot about Ronnie's drama hands.... that was fun!