Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

[maup]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Just a note, for Seymour Duncan, "regular" Stacks and Stack Plus have two different wiring schemes. In "regular" Stacks, the "hot" wire (the one being soldered to the switch) is black and in the Stack Plus models, the "hot" wire is white.

Thank you for the specification.

I choose in the end to buy DiMarzio Area 58 and I saw that they have different color for wiring than Seymour Duncan and Fender HB too.

In the DiMarzio Area 58 the "hot" is red while the "ground" is green, and the "inner coils" are black and white.

In the Fender Hot HB the "hot" is red, the "ground" is black and the "inner coils" are white and green.

[Xeromus]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Check out the ObsidianWire HSS kit. I plan to put one in my next build. I recently installed the Blender circuit model into another strat, and I really like it.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Hello to all... well I removed my strat pickguard (surprisingly I never done before...) and I found out that it has a 5 way Fender Super Switch it has a 24 poles and a really (for me) complicated wiring. Exactly this one.

After many researches and study I think I understood the wiring system and I tryed to elaborate my own wiring diagram, trying to save all the possible parts, so in the end I will remove the neck HB and add 2 Di Marzio Area 58 noiseless single coils, and rewire all in a different way.

Plus I added the "treble bleed mod" which is suggested by Di Marzio diagrams.

Here is my diagram, excuse me because I am not an expert but I think it is enough clear.

Do you think that it is a working diagram or do you see any mistake or problem?

I did some wiring in the past but actually this is the first time that I elaborate and modify a guitar.

Thank you very much.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]99058[/ATTACH]

This diagram puts both coils of bridge humbucker in parallel with the middle pickup in Position 2. Normally, just the inner coil of the humbucker is combined with the middle pickup. Is that what you really wanted to do?

Now also, if you do want to use only the bridge inner coil in position 2, you will also have to split the middle pickup and use just the main coil of it with the bridge inner coil... otherwise you will have 60 cycle hum from the bridge inner coil.

[maup]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Check out the ObsidianWire HSS kit. I plan to put one in my next build. I recently installed the Blender circuit model into another strat, and I really like it.

Thank you for that, I didn't know those kit existed, they look great and well made. I'll think about it for the next project For now I want to keep all existing parts and have some fun understanding the functionality and wiring system of the guitar.

[maup]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

This diagram puts both coils of bridge humbucker in parallel with the middle pickup in Position 2. Normally, just the inner coil of the humbucker is combined with the middle pickup. Is that what you really wanted to do?

Why should be the bridge HB splitted? I mean is there a problem? I am asking because this is the first time I wire/modify a guitar by myself...

Right now the original Fender HH setup is like that (at least seems to me like that):

Pos. 1 Bridge HB
Pos. 2 Combination of innet split coils
Pos. 3 Both HB (parallel)
Pos. 4 Combination of outer split coils
Pos. 5 Neck HB

Is Pos.3 seems that there are the two HB in parallel working togheter. So I thought to make

Pos. 1 Bridge HB
Pos. 2 Bridge HB + Middle Noiseless SC (parallel)
Pos. 3 Middle Noiseless SC
Pos. 4 Middle Noiseless SC + Neck Noiseless SC (parallel)
Pos. 5 Neck Noiseless SC

Is that a problematic choise? What could be the cons (and pros) of this particular setup?

Thanks a lot for all the info

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Why should be the bridge HB splitted? I mean is there a problem? I am asking because this is the first time I wire/modify a guitar by myself...

Right now the original Fender HH setup is like that (at least seems to me like that):

Pos. 1 Bridge HB
Pos. 2 Combination of innet split coils
Pos. 3 Both HB (parallel)
Pos. 4 Combination of outer split coils
Pos. 5 Neck HB

Is Pos.3 seems that there are the two HB in parallel working togheter. So I thought to make

Pos. 1 Bridge HB
Pos. 2 Bridge HB + Middle Noiseless SC (parallel)
Pos. 3 Middle Noiseless SC
Pos. 4 Middle Noiseless SC + Neck Noiseless SC (parallel)
Pos. 5 Neck Noiseless SC

Is that a problematic choise? What could be the cons (and pros) of this particular setup?

Thanks a lot for all the info

The traditional Stratty "quack" tone of Position 2 *may be* dulled/subdued if you use the the 2 extra coils of each pickup. I am *not* certain of that because i have never wired 2 pickups like what you are proposing, but it is a possibility. Maybe a forum member who has done what you are proposing, can reply and tell us.

Techically, the same risk of "dulled quack tone" also exists at Position 4 because you are proposing to use both coils of the neck pickup and the middle pickup, instead of combining just the two main coils of each one.

Why? Because the quack tones that are famous from Positions 2 and 4 come from the combination of just 2 coils, and you are proposing to use extra coils (which are *in series* with their respective partners, by the way - "series" thickens the tone), so the result may be different...

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

The traditional Stratty "quack" tone of Position 2 *may be* dulled/subdued if you use the the 2 extra coils of each pickup. I am *not* certain of that because i have never wired 2 pickups like what you are proposing, but it is a possibility. Maybe a forum member who has done what you are proposing, can reply and tell us.

Techically, the same risk of "dulled quack tone" also exists at Position 4 because you are proposing to use both coils of the neck pickup and the middle pickup, instead of combining just the two main coils of each one.

Why? Because the quack tones that are famous from Positions 2 and 4 come from the combination of just 2 coils, and you are proposing to use extra coils (which are *in series* with their respective partners, by the way - "series" thickens the tone), so the result may be different...

And here is a diagram to use if you wanted to achieve traditional "just 2 coils" in positions 2 and 4 with the 2 noiseless singecoils and 1 humbucker and superswitch like you have.

[maup]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

The traditional Stratty "quack" tone of Position 2 *may be* dulled/subdued if you use the the 2 extra coils of each pickup. I am *not* certain of that because i have never wired 2 pickups like what you are proposing, but it is a possibility. Maybe a forum member who has done what you are proposing, can reply and tell us.

Techically, the same risk of "dulled quack tone" also exists at Position 4 because you are proposing to use both coils of the neck pickup and the middle pickup, instead of combining just the two main coils of each one.

Why? Because the quack tones that are famous from Positions 2 and 4 come from the combination of just 2 coils, and you are proposing to use extra coils (which are *in series* with their respective partners, by the way - "series" thickens the tone), so the result may be different...

OK I understand your point, and thank you for that.

I guess I thought that being "noiseless single coils" I considered them in my mind as normal single coils to couple with each other, in fact they are stacked humbuckers...

I wonder if someone tried to couple noiseless single coils just like if they were normal single coils, without making split coils configurations.

[maup]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

And here is a diagram to use if you wanted to achieve traditional "just 2 coils" in positions 2 and 4 with the 2 noiseless singecoils and 1 humbucker and superswitch like you have.

Thank you very much for the diagram. I should study it in details because the switch positions seems in reverse order (I wrote like that too in my original post and someone said it is wrong, so I corrected my original post), also all the wire colors seems different from what I have and there are something in reverse polarity. For example the brigde red goes to ground when should go to the switch... I'll try to study that better...

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Thank you very much for the diagram. I should study it in details because the switch positions seems in reverse order (I wrote like that too in my original post and someone said it is wrong, so I corrected my original post), also all the wire colors seems different from what I have and there are something in reverse polarity. For example the brigde red goes to ground when should go do the switch... I'll try to studi that better...

The switch order (1-5) as written out on the right side of the Dimarzio diagram is not correct - neck by itself really is Position 5, not Position 1. However, where the wires are shown connected to the switch in the diagram is correct.

The color of the wires in the diagram are different because the diagram is based on all 3 pickups being Dimarzio brand. Whereas you have 2 dimarzio pickups and 1 fender pickup. So you will need to translate the colors shown in the diagram for the bridge humbucker (only) from Dimarzio wire colors to Fender wire colors. Attached below is a wire color conversion chart.

Finally, regarding the reverse polarity, after you wire it up and try out your guitar, you may find that when you have the switch set to Position 2 or Position 4 that the sound is out of phase.

1. If it happens in Position 2 only, then swap the Bridge Hot and Bridge Ground wires with each other.

2. If it happens in Position 4 only, then swap the Neck Hot and Neck Ground wires with each other.

3. If it happens in Position 2 and Position 4, then swap the Middle pickup Hot and Middle pickup Ground wires with each other

[maup]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

The switch order (1-5) as written out on the right side of the Dimarzio diagram is not correct - neck by itself really is Position 5, not Position 1. However, where the wires are shown connected to the switch in the diagram is correct.

The color of the wires in the diagram are different because the diagram is based on all 3 pickups being Dimarzio brand. Whereas you have 2 dimarzio pickups and 1 fender pickup. So you will need to translate the colors shown in the diagram for the bridge humbucker (only) from Dimarzio wire colors to Fender wire colors. Attached below is a wire color conversion chart.

Finally, regarding the reverse polarity, after you wire it up and try out your guitar, you may find that when you have the switch set to Position 2 or Position 4 that the sound is out of phase.

1. If it happens in Position 2 only, then swap the Bridge Hot and Bridge Ground wires with each other.

2. If it happens in Position 4 only, then swap the Neck Hot and Neck Ground wires with each other.

3. If it happens in Position 2 and Position 4, then swap the Middle pickup Hot and Middle pickup Ground wires with each other

Thank you very much for all the info! Great reference for the pickups wiring!


About that:

you may find that when you have the switch set to Position 2 or Position 4 that the sound is out of phase.

with "out of phase" you mean that it is not hum-cancelling: if is out of phase you hear the hum, right?

Thanks again for all.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Hello to all... well I removed my strat pickguard (surprisingly I never done before...) and I found out that it has a 5 way Fender Super Switch it has a 24 poles and a really (for me) complicated wiring.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]99058[/ATTACH]

Technically there are 24 "lugs" on a super switch. 4 "Poles" with 5 "Throws" each. A "Pole" is the common which makes different connections when going through the switch positions. There are 5 positions, connections, or "Throws" for each pole. It's like having 4 separate switches built into one housing.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Thank you very much for all the info! Great reference for the pickups wiring!


About that:



with "out of phase" you mean that it is not hum-cancelling: if is out of phase you hear the hum, right?

Thanks again for all.

Out-of-phase is not hum canceling, but out-of-phase is much more than just that... it is a very thin, nasally sounding tone, and has a huge volume drop compared to the other positions on the pickup selector switch. So, if Positions 2 or 4 are out-of-phase, it will be a very obvious sound... much more obvious than just 60 cycle hum.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

Technically there are 24 "lugs" on a super switch. 4 "Poles" with 5 "Throws" each. A "Pole" is the common which makes different connections when going through the switch positions. There are 5 positions, connections, or "Throws" for each pole. It's like having 4 separate switches built into one housing.

Guitar Doc, can you confirm or correct my earlier statement about what the OP needs to do to handle potential out-of-phase issues in Positions 2 or 4? My advice was based on swapping around hot and ground wires. Does swapping wires always provide relief to out-of-phase, or are there certain scenarios where out-of-phase cannot be resolved without having the middle pickup being RWRP to the neck and bridge? I am thinking if the middle pickup happens to have the same wind direction as the bridge or neck it is being conbo'ed with,
swapping wires would resolve out-of-phase but the combo would still be non-hum cancelling? So RWRP would be needed? Is flipping the magnet an alternate for having RWRP?

Thanks!

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Turn Strat from HH to H +S (Noiseless) +S (Noiseless)

There is a possibility that the OP will get out of phase. Depends on the individual pups and how they are wired. If it is out of phase in position 2 then reversing the wires of the bridge or middle pup will correct that.