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  • #76
    Re: H/H/H wiring

    Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
    PROBLEM SOLVED

    Short explanation of what happened...

    I have annoying hard to explain noise increase when I turn the Volume down on my guitar while plugged into my DigiTech RP360 XP guitar processor: https://youtu.be/LK9wFZj1gbM

    (the Tone issue in the video was due to bad soldering)

    First I blamed it on my wiring and troubleshoot there without success.

    So I tried to replicate the same noise problem without using the DigiTech processor, to see if the noise is coming from there.

    I used a USB interface and the standalone "Neural DSP" guitar app on my computer instead.

    There is a [HI-Z] switch on the Steinberg USB interface that switches the input impedance On or Off. According to the manual, this switch is to be used On when connecting high impedance instruments, such as an electric guitars.

    Obviously my custom wired DiMarzio harness Ibanez guitar is not High Z (impedance) enough and probably that's why I have the Volume down = noise Up problem.

    Should I modify the guitar wiring and increase the impedance - Z?
    What do you think?

    https://youtu.be/Ewl4lXWsJMI
    Hey Zaakkk,

    I am happy for you that you have found a way to connect the guitar so that there is no noise. I did watch both videos, by the way.

    Digital products are generally more susceptible to noise than analog products and one potential solution is an isolated power supply. I owned a Digitech RP-55 in the past and I found it to add a lot of noise but I had not yet learned about isolated power supplies. Later when I experienced a lot of noise with my relatively expensive Roland GR-55 synth unit, I started to do some research and learned about this. Then I invested in a good quality isolated power supply product (the TrueTone 1 Spot Pro CS12 in my case) and I experienced a significant improvement.

    I cannot make any promises that this investment would resolve the problems of the Digitech RP360.

    Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 07-20-2020, 10:47 PM.
    Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: H/H/H wiring

      Also, do you own a different electric guitar - or have access to one - so that you could connect it to the Digitech RP360 and the Steinberg with High Z option turned on, to check if the same noise problem happens with that guitar?

      Also, do you own a (non-digital) amp that you could connect the guitar to and check if the noise problem exists there as well?
      Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: H/H/H wiring

        My USB audio interface can be powered through external power bank or through the USB connection from the computer.

        I just checked and regardless of which way I power the USB interface, the "Volume down = Noise up" effect is present when the recommended by the manual High Z (impedance) circuit is engaged.

        Unfortunately I don't own another guitar or know anybody who could lend me one to check if there will be any difference.

        The "Volume down = Noise up" is there even when the DigiTech or the USB interface are not connected to my digital amp and I listen to the sound directly only with headphones: https://youtu.be/igyndGl2C4Q

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: H/H/H wiring

          Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
          My USB audio interface can be powered through external power bank or through the USB connection from the computer.

          I just checked and regardless of which way I power the USB interface, the "Volume down = Noise up" effect is present when the recommended by the manual High Z (impedance) circuit is engaged.

          Unfortunately I don't own another guitar or know anybody who could lend me one to check if there will be any difference.

          The "Volume down = Noise up" is there even when the DigiTech or the USB interface are not connected to my digital amp and I listen to the sound directly only with headphones: https://youtu.be/igyndGl2C4Q
          Ok. I watched the video.

          Did you have this same problem with the guitar before you rewired it?
          Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: H/H/H wiring

            No, I don't remember having the same issue with my Ibanez stock Quantum pickups.

            What will solve the mystery is to be able to measure the impedance of the guitar and compare it to another but you need an extra equipment for that.

            There are very good YouTube videos explaining how important is to have right amount of impedance in the guitar but it's a bit too much for my brain.



            I exclude the possibility of having a faulty pick up because the noise is on all positions of the 5-way switch.

            Either my impedance is too low or too high.
            I have to find out how to increase or decrease it by altering the wiring.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: H/H/H wiring

              Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
              No, I don't remember having the same issue with my Ibanez stock Quantum pickups.

              What will solve the mystery is to be able to measure the impedance of the guitar and compare it to another but you need an extra equipment for that.

              There are very good YouTube videos explaining how important is to have right amount of impedance in the guitar but it's a bit too much for my brain.



              I exclude the possibility of having a faulty pick up because the noise is on all positions of the 5-way switch.

              Either my impedance is too low or too high.
              I have to find out how to increase or decrease it by altering the wiring.
              I downloaded and reviewed the manual for your Steinberg USB interface. It says that when you are connecting an electric guitar, you should connect it using an Unbalanced guitar cable. It says if the guitar is connected with a different type cable, the High Impedance switch will not work correctly. See 1st pic below which is 2 screenshots where the manual says this, and it gives a picture of what an Unbalanced guitar cable looks like.

              Have you confirmed that the cable you are using to connect to your USB is a Unbalanced cable like what is pictured in the manual?

              The 2nd pic is a screenshot from your earlier video. The end of the cable plugged into the USB unit looks bulkier than a Unbalanced cable. Almost like it is either an XLR cable? Or you attached a XLR adaptor onto the end of your Unbalanced guitar cable?

              Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
              Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: H/H/H wiring

                I found it hard to go through all replies, it's a long thread lol

                Quick question,
                1. You have a Ibanez Jem UV7 guitar?
                2. It was shielded from the factory with the copper tape?
                3. Do you have testing probes in place of crocodile clips with you for your DMM?

                I didn't see the vids, saw few Dropbox pics but not all. The uv7 diagram in the first post shows a stereo socket, if you wired the hot to the wrong lug of the socket then you would be shorting the hot to ground. As for the hum you are getting, I have gotten that before but it was not related to wiring issues in the guitar but the amplification device wasn't grounded to the wall. Connect the RP360 to the computer or an amp input, don't have to turn the amp on but make sure the amp is connect to the wall socket via a 3-prong plug, monitor the rp360 via headphones, does the hum problem persist while lowering the guitar volume. Can also be due to a bad instrument cable.

                Quick advice, don't split the area58, it will require extending the white& black wires & it will hum.. Instead of that you could try some other things that you might find useful. For instance the ability to have series/parallel (dual sound) options with neck& bridge buckers via a switch will make the 2&4 positions more quackier. The superswitch can be used in conjunction with a dpdt switch to give 5 different sounds, like neck+middle in series, bridge+middle in series, all three in parallel or series & bridge +neck in series or parallel.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: H/H/H wiring

                  Wow Jack!

                  Thank you very much for your great care to take the time, download the manual and check the details.
                  I can confirm that all my cables are simple mono / unbalanced / two wires only.
                  My very first guess was that there was something wrong with my cable so I tried with all of my 6 different cables with the same noisy result.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: H/H/H wiring

                    Hi Hank!

                    1. I have Ibanez RG. It came with Ibanez quantum pickups and Ibanez electronic 5 way switch. I threw them all out and replace them with DiMarzio 2 x Gravity Storm, 1 x Area pickups and their super switch.
                    2. It was shielded from the factory with conductive black paint.
                    3. I have multimeter with dozen test cables with crocodile clips you can see me using them in most of my videos here.

                    I had no idea the UV7 diagram shows a stereo socket. Are we all blind here?
                    :O

                    Regardless if the socket shown is stereo, only two wires go to it, one is ground and the other is hot so it shouldn't be a problem if I wire it with a standard mono Jack, right?
                    Have you actually checked my wiring to see if I done it properly?


                    I can't connect the RP360 to any wall socket via real 3-prong plug because although the UK plugs have 3-prongs the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, and it serves only as a pushing key to unlock the holes of the other two wall sockets preventing accidental electric shock.

                    I've checked with 6 different cables and wired the guitar twice with the same wiring but with different wires and potentiometers, just to make sure none of those used before was faulty.

                    Your advice not to split the DiMarzio Area58 is very wise because it sounds bad. As you mentioned, I did extended the short white & black wires in order to reach the 3PDT mini switch, but not the hum worries me, what worries me is the flat unnatural sound it has when it's split. Maybe if it is split in a different way with different wiring it will sound better, but I don't know.

                    I am ready to experiment further with adding DiMarzio EP1111 (4PDT) Pickup Selector Switch with 12 terminals - 3 Position (On/On/On) or a second pull push pot.

                    If you are willing to make a new idiot proof wiring for me, you're more than welcome.
                    Last edited by Zaakkk; 07-21-2020, 04:29 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: H/H/H wiring

                      Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
                      I had no idea the UV7 diagram shows a stereo socket. Are we all blind here?
                      :O
                      I reviewed the *other* diagram because you said that was the one that did what you wanted except for the noise. So, I never looked at the UV7 diagram.

                      Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
                      I can't connect the RP360 to any wall socket via real 3-prong plug because although the UK plugs have 3-prongs the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, and it serves only as a pushing key to unlock the holes of the other two wall sockets preventing accidental electric shock.
                      I recommend you look into products like the Ebtech Hum X Ground Line Voltage Filter:


                      or some kind power conditioning/line conditioning power strip. Furman and Monster make some.
                      Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: H/H/H wiring

                        Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
                        Hi Hank!

                        1. I have Ibanez RG. It came with Ibanez quantum pickups and Ibanez electronic 5 way switch. I threw them all out and replace them with DiMarzio 2 x Gravity Storm, 1 x Area pickups and their super switch.
                        2. It was shielded from the factory with conductive black paint.
                        3. I have multimeter with dozen test cables with crocodile clips you can see me using them in most of my videos here.

                        I had no idea the UV7 diagram shows a stereo socket. Are we all blind here?
                        :O

                        Regardless if the socket shown is stereo, only two wires go to it, one is ground and the other is hot so it shouldn't be a problem if I wire it with a standard mono Jack, right?
                        Have you actually checked my wiring to see if I done it properly?


                        I can't connect the RP360 to any wall socket via real 3-prong plug because although the UK plugs have 3-prongs the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, and it serves only as a pushing key to unlock the holes of the other two wall sockets preventing accidental electric shock.

                        I've checked with 6 different cables and wired the guitar twice with the same wiring but with different wires and potentiometers, just to make sure none of those used before was faulty.

                        Your advice not to split the DiMarzio Area58 is very wise because it sounds bad. As you mentioned, I did extended the short white & black wires in order to reach the 3PDT mini switch, but not the hum worries me, what worries me is the flat unnatural sound it has when it's split. Maybe if it is split in a different way with different wiring it will sound better, but I don't know.

                        I am ready to experiment further with adding DiMarzio EP1111 (4PDT) Pickup Selector Switch with 12 terminals - 3 Position (On/On/On) or a second pull push pot.

                        If you are willing to make a new idiot proof wiring for me, you're more than welcome.
                        If you haven't already, check if you reversed the wires on your output jack.
                        Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: H/H/H wiring

                          Power line conditioning devices filter excess current that can cause hum and buzz in the audio signal.

                          Didn't I eliminate the probability of wall power supply noise issue when I powered the USB audio interface with external battery and then with power supplied only by my MakBook Pro? Both times I had only headphones plugged or using the laptop's speakers.

                          If the output guitar jack wires were reversed, I wouldn't have successfully tested the guitar for ground continuity while the ground crocodile was clipped outside on the guitar's jack's ground, right?
                          Last edited by Zaakkk; 07-22-2020, 10:39 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: H/H/H wiring

                            Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
                            Power line conditioning devices filter excess current that can cause hum and buzz in the audio signal.
                            Some also handle EMI/RFI. For example, see screenshots below from this Furman product.

                            Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
                            Didn't I eliminate the probability of wall power supply noise issue when I powered the USB audio interface with external battery and then with power supplied only by my MakBook Pro? Both times I had only headphones plugged or using the laptop's speakers.
                            It wasn't clear to me in that video that your computer was not being powered by connection to wall outlet. Ok.

                            Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
                            If the output guitar jack wires were reversed, I wouldn't have successfully tested the guitar for ground continuity while the ground crocodile was clipped outside on the guitar's jack's ground, right?
                            https://youtu.be/Ewl4lXWsJMI
                            Agreed. I forgot you did that test. That's why I wrote "if you haven't already checked".

                            Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
                            Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: H/H/H wiring

                              Originally posted by Zaakkk View Post
                              Didn't I eliminate the probability of wall power supply noise issue when I powered the USB audio interface with external battery and then with power supplied only by my MakBook Pro? Both times I had only headphones plugged or using the laptop's speakers.
                              I feel the problem lies here. If none of the devices are connected to house's main ground, you can get buzz or hum & the effect your are getting when turning the volume. The MacBook when connected to its power supply should ground itself, following that any USB device connected to the MacBook will also get grounded by the mains ground.

                              There must be a wall outlet somewhere in the house that has a 3 pin socket for heavy appliances like washing machine or refrigerator. Use that socket to wall power the laptop & connect the rp360 via usb to it. This will take care of the variable hum with volume knob issues most likely if your wiring job of the guitar isn't faulty. Try it for troubleshooting purposes, if it works then you will have to get a gorunded socket installed in your room to fix the problem. My GT10 does it when it's not grounded, the zoom g1on also does the same. The only other time I had a constant noise problem like this was a badly wired wall outlet.

                              The original pickups might have been heavily potted so they were less susceptible to interference, the dimarzios aren't overly wax potted. Does the area58 give the loudest buzz compared to the others?
                              The shielding black paint usually has a screw tightening a wire to it which is soldered to a common ground point, so you get continuity between the black paint & the guitar grounds easily if it wasn't there then the the pots are doing that job when fastened in place. Also check for continuity between the gravity storms baseplate or poles with the strings, the area58 won't because it doesn't have a bare shield wire of its own.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: H/H/H wiring

                                Thanks for the advice Hank.

                                I used external powerbank to power the USB audio interface connected to the MacBook and then the MacBook itself to power the audio interface, in order to eliminate the possibility of bad noise creating current comming from my wall sockets.

                                Unfortunately there are no live 3 pin wall outlets in our UK houses. We have 230V 3 pin sockets but the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, serving as a push key to unlock the holes of the other 2 wall sockets preventing accidental shock.

                                Does your GT10 or ZoomG1 add noise to your signal only when you decrease the Volume, the way my DigiTech and Steinberg does it only then and have no noise when the Volume is on Max, or yours are noisy all the time because of EMF or grounding issues?

                                The "Volume down = Noise up" effect is equally and uniformly present on all 5 switch positions and all mini toggle swith or pull push positions. The Area58 is quiet as the Gravity Storm buckers. Dimarzio did a great job there.

                                As you mentioned, the shielding black paint indeed had a screwed wire grounding it to the bridge. I kept that wire and solder it to the copper shielding, even though the copper shielding is continuous between all cavities and doesn't really need it.

                                I also did solder grounding wires between the pots too even though when the pots are fastened in place over the copper shielding, they are grounded without extra wires needed.

                                I never thought to check for continuity between the gravity storms baseplate or poles with the strings, so here it is, please watch it and tell me if that's the way it should be.


                                You are right about the Area58, although it has 4 wires, it doesn't have a bare shield wire of its own.
                                Last edited by Zaakkk; 07-23-2020, 11:15 AM.

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