What's the hottest most active-like Alnico passive pickup?

[beaubrummels]

The hottest, most active sounding passive I've played are the Black Winters, but those aren't alinico. Never heard alnico sound active, except possibly A8.

[Masta' C]

I agree with Beau on the Black Winters. Kind of forgot about those,but they totally satisfy my "active" cravings in a passive design.

The El Diablo is an awesome pickup. It's surprisingly hifi, but still has that distinct Alnico warmth to it. It gets more compressed as you dig in, but is surprisingly balanced for such a "hot" pickup. Plus, it sounds incredible split! As for comparing it to actives, I would say that it does have a tight, fast response, but it's more dynamic at the same time. Dan Donegan has been rocking them on nearly every Disturbed album in the past 15 years, so that's one way to "hear" it. You can also check out 2000's Scott Ian riffs and Kevin Bond's tone in Superjoint Ritual.

As for the old-school Evo vs. the Evo 2, I would give the original a shot first. The "2" is very good, but the original just has this extra "something" and if it clicks with your particular guitar/rig, I imagine you'll be very sastisfied.

[Demanic]

Another vote for D-Activators. Though no, not Alnico.
Not sure of whether their magnets are epoxied in. If not I'd love to hear a D-Activator set that's had an A4/A8 mag swap done.

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[Demanic]

Or maybe just A8 into the bridge.

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[Despair]

A few more options:

If you want a Distortion without the harshness, PATB-2 Parallel Axis Distortion is worth a look. Higher output, absolutely gonzo metal pickup, beefier lower mids than the original Distortion, but far from unmanagable. And without the ugly presence of most hot ceramic pickups.

Wilde L-500XL might be worth a look. Very cheap, alnico, lots of bite.

[Rex_Rocker]

Thanks for all the suggestions, dudes. Keep 'em comming!

The Wylde L-500XL is alnico? I thought it was ceramic like the Dimebucker. Is it not? If it is alnico, it might be worth looking at, thanks!

I absolutely love Black Winters. That would be a safe bet. I don't think they're very Alnico-like, but they are killer, yes. TBH, I hadn't thought about them because I thought I'd need something new and different to try, but if all else fails, I guess I could go BW.

The PATB-2 looks interesting as well. How about the PATB-1, though? Is it hotter than the JB? Is it anything like the JB at all?

The D-Activators also look very interesting, and I've been meaning to try them ever since they came out. I'll have to listen to more clips of them.

That makes the Evo sound pretty nice. Though not as tight as the 81, it does sound kinda dry and surgical, and somewhat 81-like. How is the output? Is it as hot as the Duncan Distortion? The specs seem to suggest it isn't, but maybe I'm missing something?

[dave74]

Carvin m22sd is alnico5 and has a very bright cutting tone with big output.
The lows are high and tight by alnico standards but not relative to an 81.,,,,,,,,,, or a dimebucker for that matter.

In a naturally chunky-toned guitar the m22sd can be a force. It's sounds like a cross between a standard hex pole pickup and an alnico5 thin-rail design like the xl500.

Really the dimebucker into a front boost of many kinds (or into a distortion pedal for cleaner amp) feels very active to me.

Look into the new Jupiter models!

[Despair]

The Wilde L-500s are Alnico (5 IIRC). The presence is a tad less harsh than the ceramic version, but otherwise they are very hard to tell apart.

The PATB-1b is hotter, but a bit less midrange than the JB. It's kind of like a hotter Custom 5, but the scoop is a bit less drastic (unless you back it too far from strings, then the mids drop out and it gets this awesome, but inflexible sound somewhere between a giant tele and a piano. The lack of mids makes a fair number of notes in various positions just about disappear, though. I wish I had a way to get it to make that sound without being locked into it all the time... But pickup closer to the strings, it has other magical sounds. It's much more balanced than the JB, yet still has singing harmonics.

If you want a JB or Distortion-like pickup, the PATB-2b is probably closer, it has more of the screaming upper mids, but it doesn't have some of the JB's downsides (tendency in some guitars towards bloated, nasal, or in a few lucky cases, both).

PATB-1b is a great pickup, if you have a midrange-heavy guitar, I highly recommend it. It's also vastly more flexible than the JB in my Ibanez RG570, better cleans, better low-gain, better thrash rhythm. But then, my guitar sounded bloated and nasal with the JB in the bridge. Could still pull off classic JB lead tones, but was rough going for anything else. PATB-1b still gets great lead tones, but can do so much more in that guitar.

Still, I also want a PATB-2. For searing leads, growling thrash, and fat riffs, I haven't heard anything better than the PATB-2 (different and also interesting, sure, but the PATB-2b is exactly what I'm looking for to convert my RG570 to a dedicated metal guitar).

The high output and clarity is a bit like an active pickup, but there's this tubey feel to the Parallel Axis pickups that is very different from actives. If you dig in, you can get a harder attack, and softer picking can squish. Exaggerated-feeling dynamics. Those manifest differently in the PATB-2 because it's so hot & compressed, though it's still unusually responsive to pick dynamics.

[Masta' C]

Thanks for all the suggestions, dudes. Keep 'em comming!

The Wylde L-500XL is alnico? I thought it was ceramic like the Dimebucker. Is it not? If it is alnico, it might be worth looking at, thanks!

I absolutely love Black Winters. That would be a safe bet. I don't think they're very Alnico-like, but they are killer, yes. TBH, I hadn't thought about them because I thought I'd need something new and different to try, but if all else fails, I guess I could go BW.

The PATB-2 looks interesting as well. How about the PATB-1, though? Is it hotter than the JB? Is it anything like the JB at all?

The D-Activators also look very interesting, and I've been meaning to try them ever since they came out. I'll have to listen to more clips of them.

That makes the Evo sound pretty nice. Though not as tight as the 81, it does sound kinda dry and surgical, and somewhat 81-like. How is the output? Is it as hot as the Duncan Distortion? The specs seem to suggest it isn't, but maybe I'm missing something?

The Evo is nearly as tight as the Black Winters. Also, I'm guessing when you say "specs", you are referring simply to the DCR, which you should know better than to rely on by now! The most important "spec" is the 404mV rating, which makes it about the 4th hottest pickup DiMarzio makes! Together, the wind and magnet give it a very "active" response. People pass by it today because it's an "older" design, but it's one of the most active-like pickups to date and more versatile than the good ol' 81.

The PATB-1 is a more balanced JB for all intents and purposes. Very similar output, harmonics, etc. It's a tad tighter than the JB, but I wouldn't say "active-like" at all.

The PATB-2 is a seriously aggressive tone monster. It's big sounding and hits hard, but it isn't known for nuance. I believe it's still the highest output production pickup SD makes. Personally, I prefer the El Diablo as a one-trick metal pony, but both pickups seriously benefit from coil splitting for clean tones.

The Bill & Becky (aka: Wilde Pickups) version of the L500XL is Alnico, but the wind was modified from the original '70s design to accommodate the change from the original's Ceramic. The Dimebucker is closer to the original in that regard. In all seriousness, though, Bill was a mastermind and 99% of players would not be able to tell a difference between them. Under gain, it's a wash...the Dimebucker and Wilde L500XL pretty much sound identical. The biggest reason for getting the Wilde version is to support a hard working family business that changed the pickup landscape beginning in the '70s and continue to offer well-built products at reasonable prices. Bill's wife Becky and their daughter now make the pickups in Los Angeles. If something like the L500XL had the "Seymour Duncan" name on it, it would be a $100+ pickup easily. Oh wait...

[Rex_Rocker]

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Thing is I've tried the Dimebucker, and I didn't like it. Not even with 250K pots. I felt it was a bit too scratchy, and not really what I'm going for. It was tight, alright, but also kinda scooped and stiff, and not really THAT hot. Keep in mind I'm more of an EMG 57 or 85 kinda guy than 81. Although I do like the 81, that's not really what I'm going for right now. Is the Bill and Becky pup different in that regard?

I find the JB responds similarly to the 57 in that it is smooth but not dark, and to that 85 in that it has this kinda squishy low mid character, and to both in that it can be singing yet aggressive when it needs to be. Hell, I could probably be fine with the low-end stuffiness if it were just a tiny bit hotter. But going ceramic changes the character too much as it adds too much bass and treble for my taste.

The Evo seems to have some of those characteristics as well in the clips. I just fear in that it will behave too ceramic-y... but that doesn't seem to be the case on the clips.

I think my top runner up is probably the Evo, then. Just wondering if there's anything else worth looking at.

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

* Creamery Doubke Six - A5/8 mix @ 14.5k

* BK WarPig - A5 @ 21.5 kΩ

* SD Alternative 8 - A8


https://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/c...l#.XyO06CgzZPY

https://www.seymourduncan.com/single...agnet=alnico-8

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

Yikes . . . i forgot about the El Diablo

A2 mag @ 22k

http://customshop.seymourduncan.com/el-diablo/

[Mincer]

Yikes . . . i forgot about the El Diablo

A2 mag @ 22k

http://customshop.seymourduncan.com/el-diablo/

Even though it is a crushing pickup, it is very musical, too.

[dave74]

IMO the standard 85 9v at the bridge has a thick and juicy character very similar to the tonezone with a boost pedal.
I think either that or the el-diablo is your best bet.

[Masta' C]

I don't know if I can get behind the Tone Zone as a replacement for the 85, but it IS a very hot, warm, A5-based pickup with slightly rolled off highs and a big bottom end. If you're going that route, I'd say look at the Transitions, which are clearer and tighter and have enough tweaks that you really can't tell they use "ceramic" mags other than having a relatively high output.

I think the biggest problem in the thinking so far is overly focusing on the magnet type. Here's what Bill Lawrence, a true pickup mastermind, had to say about magnets:

When I read that ceramic magnets sound harsh and alnico magnets sound sweet, I ask myself, " Who the hell preaches such nonsense?" There are harsh-sounding pickups with alnico magnets and sweet-sounding pickups with ceramic magnets and vice-versa! A magnet by itself has no sound, and as a part of a pickup, the magnet is simply the source to provide the magnetic field for the strings. The important factor is the design of a magnetic circuit which establishes what magnet to use.

This is ultimately why the Wilde L500XL with its Alnico mag and the original L500XL with its Ceramic mag sound virtually identical. The circuits are purpose-built and Mr. Lawrence knew how to modify his designs to accommodate different magnets.

Ultimately, if you want active-like response in a passive format, you need a hotter pickup. This results in some trade-offs. If you want that active-like immediacy, balanced touch response and full-bodied harmonic quality, you're going to sacrifice a bit of nuance and subtlety compared to, say, a lower output passive wind. But, it's not like you get a "dead" pickup...let's be real, models like the JB, Evo, etc. are FAR from "dead" sounding!

The El Diablo is a scorcher, but VERY musical, as Mincer said. Again, it doesn't have the subtlety of a low-wind PAF, but it sings, grinds, crunches and punches when the gain is applied. I'd put it in the top 5 best pickups SD makes for a metal player.

The original Evo does a good job of blending certain passive and active qualities in a fairly traditional design. What's funny is that Steve Vai himself has come back around to using pickups that are more like his original Evo!

I also want to throw in a suggestion to check out SD's new Jupiter 6-string model! I haven't had a chance to try mine out yet, but I'd wager it's a lot less "scratchy" and scooped compared to the Dimebucker.