Bill Lawrence L-90 vs L500XL?

[Mr. Lime]

Hi there,

does anyone have experience with the L-90 8H Wilde Pickup and has compared it to a L500XL?

I'm currently playing a L500L and L500R in a Washburn Falcon and I'm wondering how I would like a L-90 8H / L-90 2.8H combo instead.
My pickups have 8k17 and 9k24 resistance but I also have another older L500L with 11k which I like even more.

Usually I love Filtertrons in the neck so a brighter L-90 2.8 might fit the bill well.


For the bridge the classic L500XL has an inductance of 9.6H and the L500L has 6.9H which means the L-90 I'm aming for would be somewhere in the middle.


Looking forward to your opinions!

[ICTGoober]

Most all Lawrence units from Becky or Lawrence USA are bright and high fidelity. The L-90 is touted as a cleaner sounding pickup, while the 500XL is supposedly hotter. I've been installing and using Bill Lawrence units since the late 70's. The hallmark of Lawrence stuff is clarity of tone, with excellent string articulation, and clean power. They sound good through a Twin, a Jazz Chorus, a Marshall or a Boogie.

Some wise fellow here once commented that if you can't get your guitar sounding good with other brands of pickups, install a Lawrence to get a good and useable tone. I would heartily agree.

[Masta' C]

The 8H L-90 is a beast. It's much warmer/hotter than the standard L-500 series and a little thicker in the mids than the L500XL. It's still "hi-fi" in that Lawrence way, so it maintains lots of clarity, but it loses some of the charm and dynamics of the original L-90's, IMO.

Just so people know, the original L-90 from the '70s is equivalent to the modern 4H model and the 6H is equivalent to the "XL" model that came shortly after. The 8H is more of an "XXL" version, if that makes sense.

Honestly, I think the 6H version is the absolute best of the L-90's for nearly all styles, especially when paired with a 2.8H neck. Basically *the* quintessential L-90 set.

[maug2122]

Most all Lawrence units from Becky or Lawrence USA are bright and high fidelity. The L-90 is touted as a cleaner sounding pickup, while the 500XL is supposedly hotter. I've been installing and using Bill Lawrence units since the late 70's. The hallmark of Lawrence stuff is clarity of tone, with excellent string articulation, and clean power. They sound good through a Twin, a Jazz Chorus, a Marshall or a Boogie.

Some wise fellow here once commented that if you can't get your guitar sounding good with other brands of pickups, install a Lawrence to get a good and useable tone. I would heartily agree.

I have a early 1980's Bill Lawrence XL 500 that is 11.28k ohms, it's in a Kramer parts Supercaster.
I am taking it out to put it a Black Epiphone LPC, I am " chroming " out the guitar to do a John Sykes thing and the Bill Lawrence pickup is going in the neck position and either a Carvin M22SD or a Dimarzio Evolution in the bridge.

The XL 500 is a great neck pickup too, just as versatile as a Screamin Demon.

[freefrog]

The 8H L-90 is a beast. It's much warmer/hotter than the standard L-500 series and a little thicker in the mids than the L500XL. It's still "hi-fi" in that Lawrence way, so it maintains lots of clarity, but it loses some of the charm and dynamics of the original L-90's, IMO.

Just so people know, the original L-90 from the '70s is equivalent to the modern 4H model and the 6H is equivalent to the "XL" model that came shortly after. The 8H is more of an "XXL" version, if that makes sense.

Honestly, I think the 6H version is the absolute best of the L-90's for nearly all styles, especially when paired with a 2.8H neck. Basically *the* quintessential L-90 set.

Not at all to argue but because my old brain is full of uncertain memories: are you sure of the second paragraph? In my mind, there was no XL initially but the "L" version was equivalent to a contemporary XL... I've not my BL archives here but that's what I remember (knowing that one of my friends was the first to import BL pickups in my country, four decades ago).

Anyway and out of my head (as well as off topic but it(s worth sharing IMHO), when it comes to "500" hb's, DCR values are roughly...

-14k for the 9+H version (as measured on my vintage chrome housed one, which is also my oldest BL 500 hb),

-11+ to 12+k for the L models (including the P90 sized L500 labelled L550, for instance)

- while the "R" and "C" 500's respectively measure about the same than a T-Top and a Filter'Tron : a bit more than 7k and 4k.

All that being said, I agree about 6H as being an interesting inductance sound wise.:-)


Now and Mr. Lime : a 8H L90 wired in parallel would measure a wee bit above the inductance of a Filter'Tron, FWIW. :-D

[Mr. Lime]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Didn't assumed that the L-90 8H would have more mids than the 500XL.

Does someone know how the L-90 and L500 differ construction wise under the cover?

[Mr. Lime]

I finally ordered a set of L-90s. It will take a view weeks until they arrive. I jumped on the 2.8H and 8H versions.

I thought ~11k is what the old 500L got which became the 500XL when they renamed the models. The old ones should have ceramic magnets while the newer models seem to have AlNiCo 5 magnets and that's why they need more wire to compensate the output.
People seem to like both versions and I haven't read anything about a noticeable change in sound. Any comments on this?

[freefrog]

I finally ordered a set of L-90s. It will take a view weeks until they arrive. I jumped on the 2.8H and 8H versions.

I thought ~11k is what the old 500L got which became the 500XL when they renamed the models. The old ones should have ceramic magnets while the newer models seem to have AlNiCo 5 magnets and that's why they need more wire to compensate the output.
People seem to like both versions and I haven't read anything about a noticeable change in sound. Any comments on this?

Here are my comments:

-I've one of the oldest 500 "L" here and it measures 14k (for 9.4H on my inductance lab meter). The 11k/12k range = 6H models = current "L" versions (born after the original 9H, AFAIK). For example, I've also here "BL USA" model showing 12.5k / 5.9H (ceramic mag) and a Bill & Becky measuring 12.5k / 6.4H (AlNiCo mag).

-More wire is not needed with AlNiCo mags compared to ceramic. In fact, if one wants the same inductance from a pickup with A5 than from another pickup with ferrite ("ceramic") magnet(s), the pickup with AlNiCo will need LESS wire. Reasons: AlNiCo increases the inductance of coils. Ceramic doesn't. See the measurements above on a BL USA and a B&B models.

And inductance is what dictates the EQing + a part of the output level. Not all of it but a good amount.

-Bill Lawrence designs are almost not affected by the difference between AlNiCo and Ceramic: as they host the least possible metallic components (= their two thin blades), they are the least sensitive possible to eddy currents.
What makes the sound so different between Ceramic and AlNiCo in a same "Gibson" style humbucker (with baseplate, keeper bar, pole pieces and possibily cover) is partly the difference of inductance, partly the Foucault currents due to the metallic mass of the magnetic circuit and aggravated by the amount of iron in AlNiCo...

IOW, when Bill Lawrence was saying that "magnetism is magnetism",and that mags make no difference (see http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Pi...gy/magnets.htm ), it made sense: this claim is totally justified for HIS "eddy currents free" designs.

"Words, words, words", obviously. Sorry to be so talkative. Just hope it clarifies a bit the landscape...


All that being said: enjoy with your L90's. Nothing else matters!

And let us know how they sound to you. :-)

[Mr. Lime]

Thanks a lot freefrog, very good and intersting read!

One more question regarding magnets;
Usually AlNiCo magnets are more expensive than ceramic. If the magnet doesn't affect tone by much in a Bill Lawrence design, why does Becky use AlNiCo mags? Wasn't the original design ceramic as well?

[freefrog]

Thanks a lot freefrog, very good and intersting read!

One more question regarding magnets;
Usually AlNiCo magnets are more expensive than ceramic. If the magnet doesn't affect tone by much in a Bill Lawrence design, why does Becky use AlNiCo mags? Wasn't the original design ceramic as well?

You're welcome.

Regarding mags, I'll just quote a sentence from B&B, 17 years ago:

L-500's (hard core, hi Q, blades, 15mm magnetic window). From February 2005: due to the unavailability of the ceramic magnets, a new circuit was designed using alnico V magnets, delivering the same sound.

Now and for the record, there was many variations with mags in L500's: some host a single bar between the two thin blades. Others have four (!) small magnets under their coils...

[Wound_Up]

Most all Lawrence units from Becky or Lawrence USA are bright and high fidelity. The L-90 is touted as a cleaner sounding pickup, while the 500XL is supposedly hotter. I've been installing and using Bill Lawrence units since the late 70's. The hallmark of Lawrence stuff is clarity of tone, with excellent string articulation, and clean power. They sound good through a Twin, a Jazz Chorus, a Marshall or a Boogie. Some wise fellow here once commented that if you can't get your guitar sounding good with other brands of pickups, install a Lawrence to get a good and useable tone. I would heartily agree.

They sound great through a solid state Randall, too. Dimebag Darrell used the L500L and the L500XL afaik. And his tone was SAVAGE.

I'm pretty certain I like those better than the SD Dimebucker, which I guess would be somewhat equivalent? I just know I prefer the sound of his guitar with the L500s vs the SD's

[Dave Locher]

I have to say I'm a little confused by some of what is written here. I had an 8h L-90 and an L-500XL in the same guitar a couple years ago and I found the 500 more warm and powerful than the L90. I preferred the 500 for that guitar for rock/hard rock.
I heard the L-90 as bright and clear, moreso than the 500XL.
I'll be interested in the OP's thoughts once the L90s are installed.

[Mr. Lime]

I now have the L90 set in my Jackson Stars Soloist. A little too bright for my taste is the bridge pickup. The big brass block of the Floyd Rose system doesn't help enough. I don't think it's hotter than the 500L I got in my Washburn Falcon. Overall they are good pickups with nice dynamics but they just don't fit soundwise or optical to that guitar.
Today I purchased an OBL 900XL which should be close to the 500XL. I will probably put it into my Charvel Model 6 with Kahler tremolo system.

I remember I had a Ultrasonic pickup in an Ibanez Roadstar, but it didn't blew me away either. Can't remember exactly which model it was. Does anybody know anything about the differences of OBL and Ultrasonic pickups?

[ICTGoober]

Does anybody know anything about the differences of OBL and Ultrasonic pickups?

OBL (Original Bill Lawrence) were designed by Bill, but manufactured in Europe by an unspecified producer. I have no info on Ultrasonic.