Bare Knuckle impressions

[orpheo]

It's PAT and to me a SG is warmer than a LP, just a bit less Balls, but rounder and therefore can benefit from a bright Pickup.
At least the ones i played.


Nah, not all them. There is tons of stuff available.

The nordish stuff in general is pretty bitter, as are Pilsner. Not my thing with few exceptions.
Wheat beer/white beer is typically soft, fruity and not bitter at all. Also not my thing.

IPAs are my favorite at the moment.

PAF. Buddy.. sorry, don't mean to sound like a dick but I know my pickups. I typed PAF not to be pedantic but to throw out a ballpark description of that pickup. The PAT is a PAF with alterations to it (shorter mag, different alloy, different insulation), but there are more commonalities between a PAF and PAT than differences. How many have tried, consciously, a PAF type versus a PAT?

SG is considered by many brighter than an LP.

[Rex_Rocker]

German beers are soft and tasteless. Köln bier, Weihenstephaner, Franziskaner, Schultenbräu... all soft and weak. Not for me. I prefer IPA's and stouts. And triples.

I love Tripels as well. That's the apex of beer for me. I also really like Quadrupel.

I like IPAs as much as anyone, but they're not my favorite. I guess it's because it's the most common type of beer that you find in the craft beer market. At least here. So while there are a few extraordinary ones, there's A LOT of pretty bad ones too.

And stouts, I like some. I can appreciate a really good stout. But it's certainly not the beer that I seek out the most.

[Rex_Rocker]

SG is considered by many brighter than an LP.

IME, they kind of are because the bridge pickup is closer to the bridge than a LP, and so is the neck pickup.

[ToneFiddler]

Well the PU bridge position on a gibson is anything but a constant! It varies quite a bit. You're right about the neck.

there is no easy answer if a SG is brighter than a LP. some say the JB is too bright, some say it's only high mids. or is the PGb brighter than the 59b. it's debatable.

Anyway back to the RiffRaff: one could argue that a PU with that name might be considered to be put into an SG, and it crossed the mind of Tim Mills.
I personally think it's a great match in a SG, but everybody is entited to his own opinion.

A late PAF and a Early PAT might be the same thing, agrred.
PAT had different insulation as PAF? Didn't that come later, just before they changed to the T-Top bobbin?

[marcello252]

In Italy they are outrageously pricey

[ToneFiddler]

what i forgot: if find it pretty ironic that this high price boutique hand winder is not willing to make a tap to their Tele bridges. I asked them over the chat function if they would make me a Piledriver with a tap at around 10k, but they declined.

[Rex_Rocker]

there is no easy answer if a SG is brighter than a LP. some say the JB is too bright, some say it's only high mids. or is the PGb brighter than the 59b. it's debatable.

Point taken.

Now that I think about it, more than brighter, I'd call them thinner. But yeah. It's debatable.

[Inflames626]

This thread seems to support my impression that, while they are great pickups, the cost (in this part of the world at least) makes them not really worth it.

Kind of sucks that they wouldn't build what you wanted for the prices being paid.

[Rex_Rocker]

This thread seems to support my impression that, while they are great pickups, the cost (in this part of the world at least) make them not really worth it.

Kind of sucks that they wouldn't build what you wanted for the prices being paid.

I agree. I am curious about them. I would so buy a set of Aftermaths or Black Hawks (tee hee) if I found a good deal on them. But I don't feel compelled to pay that kind of money on a pickup which I'm not sure I'd dig. I'd much rather spend that money on a Lundgren M6, personally.

[Seashore]

They aren't a "build you what you want" operation. They used to offer a bit more customisation years ago but I'm not surprised they don't have the capacity for it now. The Creamery has a great rep if you're looking for something more bespoke in the UK. Elysian makes nice stuff here in the States and you can email with the owner if you need something specific.

If you're just looking to experiment and thinking about cycling through pickups, BKP prices are tough to swallow. If you know that you're getting exactly what you want and it's going to stay in your guitar for the long haul, the price difference is not an issue. Especially considering how much some of y'all are happy to drop on other extras and aesthetic tweaks.

[Rex_Rocker]

Personally, what appeals to me about getting a BKP is the whole hand-made selling point.

That, however, is a two-sided sword. They downright state (or used to state, not sure anymore) that every one of their pickup sounds "unique". So... what are the chances I actually get a dud?

[Inflames626]

Personally, what appeals to me about getting a BKP is the whole hand-made selling point.

That, however, is a two-sided sword. They downright state (or used to state, not sure anymore) that every one of their pickup sounds "unique". So... what are the chances I actually get a dud?

I think I've said this before. Hand-made, point-to-point wiring, etc., are usually marketing terms to mean "better."

I could get a fine handmade Swiss watch for thousands. Or I could get a digital quartz watch for less than $100.

From a utilitarian standpoint, as finely crafted as the Swiss is, it can't beat the value of the quartz. And the quartz won't lose time and is cheaper to replace than the Swiss is to repair.

Now if someone winding by hand discovered a certain wind and I really liked it, I would be fine with them replicating that design by machine so consistency is maintained.

I trust pickup designers to create interesting prototypes, not to mass produce them by hand consistently.

I'm much more anal about, say, an 80s guitar that has not had its electronics or hardware altered and I want to preserve it as it was. As if by heating 40+ year old solder joints I'm losing the magic of that era.

Just a psychological ramble.

[Inflames626]

They aren't a "build you what you want" operation. They used to offer a bit more customisation years ago but I'm not surprised they don't have the capacity for it now. The Creamery has a great rep if you're looking for something more bespoke in the UK. Elysian makes nice stuff here in the States and you can email with the owner if you need something specific.

If you're just looking to experiment and thinking about cycling through pickups, BKP prices are tough to swallow. If you know that you're getting exactly what you want and it's going to stay in your guitar for the long haul, the price difference is not an issue. Especially considering how much some of y'all are happy to drop on other extras and aesthetic tweaks.

If they won't build as I want, then I won't pay as they want.

Lovely how that works out.

Nah, that's fine if firms don't want to customize, but it really depends upon what they're charging. I'm sure Brexit didn't help their sales on the Continent.

I agree completely about price and knowing what you want. The cycling is part of it. It's just a pain to return what you don't want and you kind of have to buy them all at once so you can test them out in a short period of time before your ear forgets what they sound like.

At this point I'd rather pay more for pickups that are no longer made, like pre-Kiesel Carvins, because you can't get them anywhere.

[Seashore]

If they won't build as I want, then I won't pay as they want.

Lovely how that works out.

Nah, that's fine if firms don't want to customize, but it really depends upon what they're charging. I'm sure Brexit didn't help their sales on the Continent.

I agree completely about price and knowing what you want. The cycling is part of it. It's just a pain to return what you don't want and you kind of have to buy them all at once so you can test them out in a short period of time before your ear forgets what they sound like.

At this point I'd rather pay more for pickups that are no longer made, like pre-Kiesel Carvins, because you can't get them anywhere.

You usually won't be able to return BKPs. You'd have to resell them. Resale value is good, especially for in-demand models with basic finish options, and they usually sell quickly. Resale value is worse for USA brands like Elysian and Guitarmory and they sit around for longer, and you're often paying just as much for their sets.

The thing for me is that I know a Rebel Yell or Cold Sweat or Nailbomb in one of my Gibsons is going to sound and feel just how I want through my amp. If I could get that sound and feel from the Duncans or Fishmans my last few guitars came with, I would be a happy camper, and believe me I tried... it just didn't work. It's not a knock on those pickups, I have Duncans in other guitars, but the point is that it would be worth it to me to pay a bit of a premium for something like that because I know what I want. Your guitars through your amps, for the way you like to play? No idea. That extra $50 per pickup doesn't guarantee you wind up in nirvana, it's just a different flavor you won't get anywhere else, but there are some people who buy in thinking that they're paying for an objectively "better" tone, which is the wrong way to think about it.

As far as "getting a dud", no, I would say the tonal difference between different pickups of the same model is practically negligible. They're not identical but they're made with care by people who know what they're doing.

[Inflames626]

You usually won't be able to return BKPs. You'd have to resell them. Resale value is good, especially for in-demand models with basic finish options, and they usually sell quickly. Resale value is worse for USA brands like Elysian and Guitarmory and they sit around for longer, and you're often paying just as much for their sets.

The thing for me is that I know a Rebel Yell or Cold Sweat or Nailbomb in one of my Gibsons is going to sound and feel just how I want through my amp. If I could get that sound and feel from the Duncans or Fishmans my last few guitars came with, I would be a happy camper, and believe me I tried... it just didn't work. It's not a knock on those pickups, I have Duncans in other guitars, but the point is that it would be worth it to me to pay a bit of a premium for something like that because I know what I want. Your guitars through your amps, for the way you like to play? No idea. That extra $50 per pickup doesn't guarantee you wind up in nirvana, it's just a different flavor you won't get anywhere else, but there are some people who buy in thinking that they're paying for an objectively "better" tone, which is the wrong way to think about it.

As far as "getting a dud", no, I would say the tonal difference between different pickups of the same model is practically negligible. They're not identical but they're made with care by people who know what they're doing.

The problem is there are so many variables that "knowing what you want" pretty much requires a trial and error process. And you may think you have that until you hear something you couldn't imagine before.

I was happy with EMGs from 1996 to about 2010. Then I considered them acceptable. It wasn't until I tried them in 24 volts that I realized how great they COULD sound for certain applications in certain genres.

Same with when I first heard Blackouts. "How can they improve EMGs?" Well, they did, at least for lower tunings, IMO.

So basically I won't know what I'm looking for until I hear it, which will require expensive and time consuming trial and error.