Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mincer
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    Donít start threads and argue with everyone with a different opinion. Closed.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmirH
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
    Yep. The quiet amp with correct tone and recording rig that records accurately is working much better for me than a pos dynamic "put in the right place". The sm57 can suck my balls. Learning techniques only with budget gear is a false dichotomy. You can get good gear then learn how to use it. I am watching videos that pertain to my setup. The 1st one is how to mix with a daw (or analogue). The 2nd one is how to master using plugins in reaper. The 3rd vid is a producer that I know the most about since he produced In Utero and I'm interested in analogue technology.
    So, while it's true that it can be a false dichotomy, it also seems like you're reasoning with some different false dichotomies. Also, you seem weirdly defensive in the latter part of this thread considering everyone is just trying to offer genuine advice. This place can be a great resource for sharing knowledge, and you're confusing people trying to help for people telling you you're wrong. I only jumped into this thread because it sounded like you were on a path to damaging your new Neumann and thought it would suck to have to learn an 800 dollar lesson... The capsules in those mics are surprisingly fragile, so another thing to watch out for is getting too close to it when delivering vocals, because the moisture can damage them over time as well.

    When I said "videos more specific to your setup," I had in mind mic placement techniques for large diaphragm condenser mics, videos where people show their workflow in your daw and general instructions about setting up your channel strips and bus tracks, using automation, ect., videos about treating a small room, videos about mixing your specific electronic drum kit, and so on. The general stuff is good to, but the suggestion was to get really familiar with what you now have. You shouldn't even worry about mastering at this stage of learning IMO. Also, by analogue technology do you mean recording to tape?

    As for your opinions about "garbage" vs "quality" gear, a lot of what you've said is laughably off the mark. I'm sure you are enjoying better sounding recording using a pricey condenser compared to your experiments with the sm57, but that's because it's doing exactly what it's designed to do: accurately capturing the sound in the room. But generalizing dynamic microphones as inferior is misguided at best. I mean, look, I wouldn't even claim to have achieved "pro" quality, but I've certainly spent the last 20 years or so trying, and I've invested exponentially more than what you've described along the way. For reference, my interface was $1500 when I bought it, and I still consider it "upper mid-tier." I said that because you need good quality a/d conversion and transparent pres with enough headroom and low noise, and you don't get that with entry level or even most mid-tier interfaces (the mid tier ones keep getting better and better though). Neither of us owns an SSL or Neve, so how are we defining "pro"? I own 11 microphones (still feel I need more) including a more expensive nuemann than you have, and of those 11 mics, 4 are sm57s. That's because you can literally throw one across the room without breaking it, and because it's versatile -- it works great on snare, horns, percussion, guitar, and even live vocals, and because it's highly directional pattern, it's great for experimenting with positioning for different tones, and the frequency range others have described make it easy to mix with. It was almost certainly used on In Utero in some way or another. If you end up pursuing this seriously, you'll quickly learn you do in fact need dynamic mics in your arsenal. Different types of mics serve different purposes -- they're not better or worse than one another. It's apples vs. oranges. It's true that a condenser (or even better, a ribbon mic) can capture a clean guitar performance a bit more fully than just a close mic situation with a dynamic, but it will also capture literally everything else in the immediate environment -- the squeaking of your floorboards, or computer chair, the furnace kicking on, the neighbor kids, your pets, ect. It will also more accurately convey a less than ideal room that hasn't been acoustically treated. The acoustics of your room, by the way, are probably as important for hearing your mixes accurately as having proper monitor speakers, and as others have said, it's super important to know your room really well even if it hasn't been treated. I feel like there's an adjustment period where I'm relearning to mix every time I have to move, no doubt about it. If you're recording in a less than ideal room, dynamic mics can help minimize issues it could introduce to your recordings. Also, sometimes you actually WANT certain types of "colored" sounds. For example, I keep an sp404 around even though I have two other samplers that are more capable and don't degrade the bit rate of the signal. Why? Because even though it's technically "inferior," it has a certain lo-fi vibe to it that I can't replicate perfectly with the more expensive samplers. Anyway, all this is to say even cheap gear can have its purpose, even if you own a lot of expensive gear too.

    Finally, because of your back and forth with phantasmagoria, I feel like someone needs to tell it to you straight: your tone would sound way better if you opened up your amp a little bit more. It doesn't have to be super loud -- just loud enough to come alive. No one wants to listen to guitar that sounds like it's trying to keep the neighbors happy, even clean guitar . In addition to the speaker movement phantasmagoria mentioned, you'll introduce more harmonic richness by letting the tubes work a little.
    Last edited by AmirH; 01-14-2020, 02:25 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phantasmagoria
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    You don't like SM57's/budget interface's ...fine ..no problem

    And yep, Steve Albini would probably do a better job than you currently can if you handed him your old interface , an SM57 or two & your previous/crappy computer. (not a tape recorder ...though who knows )

    Leave a comment:


  • Beer$
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
    I know. I'm just triggered from the contant bs of an sm57 into a budget interface. I respect you and your work.
    Alright. Keep in mind though, the others are trying to help you as well though and they're going by what's worked for them. I'm sure if they knew you were going for accuracy to how it sounds in the room they wouldn't recommend that approach.

    A single sm57 wouldn't do it for me either. It "works" in a utilitarian sense for that "polished hi-gain" sound in the mix which some of my clients want. It emphasizes the more important frequencies for a guitar in a mix and doesn't include much of what would get in the way, but it's not going to sound like how the amp sounds in the room. Capturing that is an artform in itself and sound engineers have been trying all sorts of ways to do that since recording really got going as a medium. There's a book I highly recommend called "Mixing with your mind" by Michael Stavrou with great, outside-the-box strategies for capturing all kinds of sounds. The guy's a genius.

    Anyway, I think a different dynamic to a 57, one with a broader frequency response (like the Hei PR30 for instance, one of my favs) blended with something like a ribbon-mic for warmth and juicier lows. You could even blend with a condenser that can do a figure 8 pattern, that works out really cool sometimes. Then there's "mid-side micing" where you combine a cardiod with a figure-8. By now, we're pretty much spoiled for choice when it comes to mics and capture techniques.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clint 55
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    I know. I'm just triggered from the contant bs of an sm57 into a budget interface. I respect you and your work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beer$
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    How am I trolling you?? I gave you solid advice based on my many years of experience as a qualified sound engineer. Nothing I have said is misinformation, I was just trying to help. You don't have to listen but you can't say that it's both useful, good advice and that I'm also a troll. Comes off as really petulant and childish.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clint 55
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    https://soundcloud.com/clint-jones-2...ralin-hhh-demo

    I think I'm good thanks. Good luck achieving better tone than this with an sm57. I just think it's funny how much you guys want to troll me with misinformation. I will experiment with 2 mics tho, good advice. I also did take in you guys' advice about placement and levels and such. It was the good gear plus good recording techniques that lead to this recorded tone.
    Last edited by Clint 55; 01-14-2020, 12:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beer$
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    If accuracy to the source is what you're after, you're looking at using multiple microphones. There isn't really one microphone that captures what you hear in the room next to your amp. When I like what I'm hearing from my amp that much that I want to preserve the impression I get from it in the room on the recording, I wind up using at least a few, two at the absolute minimum. Either way, you're going to want to read up on multi-mic techniques because there's some important stuff you will want to know about for it to work like phase coherency and which mics to blend, where to put them and so on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clint 55
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    Originally posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    I've said it before & I'll say it again...it's not the equipment as much as how good/familiar one is at utilizing it. At least, that's the conclusion I've come to.
    Sure. Steve Albini with a taper recorder is gonna get better sound than me at sound city.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clint 55
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    Uh huh. I didn't care for the quality of sound from the cheap computer, interface or dynamic mics. I determined that they weren't going to work for me and that I needed some quality gear and to learn how to optimize it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phantasmagoria
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    If you're happy with what you've got going that's cool ..it just sounds like you were putting down other gear (dynamics/SM57's) & other tried/tested ways of going about recording stuff which obviously work fine in the right hands..

    I've said it before & I'll say it again...it's not the equipment as much as how good/familiar one is at utilizing it. At least, that's the conclusion I've come to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clint 55
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    I didn't spend mega bucks on my recording equipment. I spent $640 on an interface, $800 on a laptop, and $900 on the Neumann condenser. I also didn't say that's the only way to get good sound. This is the way I'm doing it. I don't want to set up my guitar rig like it's a show and then put a dynamic mic in front of it to dull it down. I want to play my rig at the volumes and eq I always play and then use a recording setup that will give me the most accurate possible recording. I'm not ****ing using the sm57. It ****ing sucks at recreating the actual sound of the guitar rig. Ok so it does an ok job at micing live sound. Big ****ing deal.
    Last edited by Clint 55; 01-13-2020, 12:15 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phantasmagoria
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
    I'm happy for you that you think a guitar rig at its best and a recording setup at its worst is always the best policy for everyone.
    How are SM57's 'a recording setup at it's worst' when 90 % of the bands you've heard/loved probably used them?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for breaking rules ...but I don't think spending mega-bucks on boutique recording equipment is the only way to get good recordings (or break rules).

    Leave a comment:


  • Mincer
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    I always think that if you want to create something new (rather than re-create something that came before), you gotta start breaking some rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clint 55
    replied
    Re: I've come to the conclusion that the pros have more than a 1 grand mic/interface

    Yap I think so. I'm gonna keep my dynamic mics in case I have a use for them with a band in the future.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X