12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

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supernosher

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Hi All,

Which speaker would have the best articulation of low frequencies in an open-back 1x12 combo? The amp is only 2xEL84, so I am guessing maybe the EV 12L wouldn't be driven enough... Also, do AlNiCo speakers react similarly to AlNiCo pickups (aka better dynamics than ferrite or ceramic)? And, what about a speaker with a Neodymium magnet?

It's not all about low frequency articulation, so I want a speaker with a nice top end too.

Thanks for all your input.
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

the eminence wizard does lots of bass. quite versatile speaker.

there is a tone guide plus soundsamples on the eminence homepage

martin
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Classic Lead 80, very articulate. I have one in my 18 Watter combo. It's pretty clean for a Celestion anyway, so the fact that it's only getting no where near it 80-watt capacity isn't a big deal.

I A/B'd it against a G12H30 and liked mine better. (Blasphemy in hardcore 18 Watter circles.)
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Rich_S, that's cool. I've always been a fan of sacrilege. :)

CLF, thanks for the link. I like those WGS pricetags.

Will my dynamics suffer compared to an AlNiCo speaker? I really like the dynamics that the new Fender Super Reverb RI has, and I assume part of it comes from the speakers. Am I wrong to think this?
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Open back, 1x12, mmmm . . . .

. . . if you want more bass, and not go muddy, look into the Lead 80 ot the Canabis Rex of Emi. (alot more bass)

http://www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=CANNABISREX&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=4

http://www.eminence.com/soundclips.asp - clips

Not just will the CRex add a whole lot more low end to your amp, but it is a super efficient driver, that will make your amp hang with bigger stock amps !
If you have a 15W BJr, it will now very easily hang with 30watters, it not more !!!


James
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Oh, another speaker you can look into is the Greenback.


James
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Among Celestions, or their clones, any H magnet ceramic speaker will remain more articulate in the bass in an open backed cab. These would include the G12H30 (the gold standard), the Classic Lead 80, and the Vintage 30.

The Vintage 30 was designed as a ceramic alternative to an Alnico. They used the H magnet because it had about same measurable magnetic properties as their typical Alnico magnet. The V30 is more fat in the mids compared to a typical Alnico but it is a chimey speaker for cleans, and killer for singing leads.

Alnico magnet speakers usually stay fairly articulate in the low end in open backed applications, much more so than a medium size ceramic magnet speaker like the G12M or G12T types. These M magnet speakers have a mellower response but the low end can lack punch and articulation in an open back cab.

The stronger magnetism of the typical Alnico or a large ceramic magnet, like the H magnet, helps keep the cone more tightly controlled without the aid of the air pressure of a sealed cab. G12M Greenbacks and the like can a get a bit farty opened back because they don't have the air pressure to help keep the cone movements more tightly controlled.

The thing about Alnico magnets in speakers, and in part why they usually sound more dynamic, is that the Alnico conducts and this leads to a slighlty less harsh highs when you dig in (by virtue of it making the cone start to move more gradually), but without loosing the chime and brightness. For lower wattage open backed applications an Alnico like the Celestion Blue or the EMi Red Fang are very popular, but the G12H30 sounds so good for a lower cost..........
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Excellent man, thanks for letting me pick your brain LPB! :)

The G12H30 Heritage is $245 tho! I might get that if I can sell some stuff.
 
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Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

supernosher said:
Excellent man, thanks for letting me pick your brain LPB! :)

The G12H30 Heritage is $245 tho! I might get that if I can sell some stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's hard to justify that price. You could easily get two V30's or regular H30's and probably have some spare change. Don't over look Avatar's Hellatone30 and 60 that are partially pre-broke in V30 and H30 speakers.

I'm not as familar with the Emi options like the Swamp Thang as others, but I would expect the heavier and lighter magnets would folllow the same principles.
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

try the eminence legend gb128. i bought one off ebay for $20. greenback clone. very smooth and bassy.
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

CaughtLikeFire said:
Wizard is a killer rock n roll speaker but it's closed-back only (check the Q value).
Click to expand...

interesting: eminence tone guide says "12" open or closed back".
but if i can remember right, they have made changes to it. i remember, that my legend 1258 used to be specified
as open back only and not the tone guide says "12" open or closed back" as well.
 
Last edited:
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Baltar said:
interesting: eminence tone guide says "12" open or closed back".
but if i can remember right, they have made changes to it. i remember, that my legend 1258 used to be specified
as open back only and not the tone guide says "12" open or closed back" as well.
Click to expand...

I was doing some speaker shopping for my new cab last month and the current tone guide specifies closed only (makes sense given the Q value). It's definitely possible that they changed it in the past year or so - I remember some folks having issues with cone cry on the Wizards and there were lots of discussions about semi-open back cabs, closed cab volume, etc. The Wizard seemed to be pretty sensitive to cabinet type and I bet Eminence got some complaints.
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

I think I'm going with the Weber Ceramic 1230-55, which no one mentioned. I hear that WGS has had alot of QC problems lately... anybody care to comment?
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

supernosher said:
I think I'm going with the Weber Ceramic 1230-55, which no one mentioned. I hear that WGS has had alot of QC problems lately... anybody care to comment?
Click to expand...

I have the Cone Tones CD that has sound samples of all the major Weber (British line) and Scumback (made by Weber) speakers. The 1230-55 is very edgy. All of the 55Hz (bass) cones seem to have this extra bite. I think it sounds great but it would not be my first choice for clean tones. The 75Hz (lead) cones sound a little smoother - I would lean towards the 1230 if you play clean channel stuff. The Scumback H75 is also worth a look/listen - not cheap but less $$ than a Celestion Heritage.

but if you can get a chance to listen to them in person, that would obviously be your best bet
 
Last edited:
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Yep. The 55 Hz Weber British cone is awesome. I have one of these in a 2x12 along with a Weber Silver Bell. Back around 1979 I bought a pair of Celestion G12H speakers with the 55 Hz cones and loved them. I had blown both of the Greenbacks in my 50 watt Marshall Mk II combo, and these G12H-55 Hz speakers sounded HUGE compared to the Greenbacks. I never blew them either. The Weber 1230-55 is pretty much exactly how I remember these old Celestions.


So... Good choice.
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

SMark said:
Yep. The 55 Hz Weber British cone is awesome. I have one of these in a 2x12 along with a Weber Silver Bell. Back around 1979 I bought a pair of Celestion G12H speakers with the 55 Hz cones and loved them. I had blown both of the Greenbacks in my 50 watt Marshall Mk II combo, and these G12H-55 Hz speakers sounded HUGE compared to the Greenbacks. I never blew them either. The Weber 1230-55 is pretty much exactly how I remember these old Celestions.


So... Good choice.
Click to expand...

Laughing Kookaburra said:
I'd be interested in what you think once it's in!
Click to expand...

Cool. I feel good about it, just gotta wait till the 19th.
 
Re: 12" with the most articulate bass in an open-back combo ?

Lake Placid Blues said:
Among Celestions, or their clones, any H magnet ceramic speaker will remain more articulate in the bass in an open backed cab. These would include the G12H30 (the gold standard), the Classic Lead 80, and the Vintage 30.

The Vintage 30 was designed as a ceramic alternative to an Alnico. They used the H magnet because it had about same measurable magnetic properties as their typical Alnico magnet. The V30 is more fat in the mids compared to a typical Alnico but it is a chimey speaker for cleans, and killer for singing leads.

Alnico magnet speakers usually stay fairly articulate in the low end in open backed applications, much more so than a medium size ceramic magnet speaker like the G12M or G12T types. These M magnet speakers have a mellower response but the low end can lack punch and articulation in an open back cab.

The stronger magnetism of the typical Alnico or a large ceramic magnet, like the H magnet, helps keep the cone more tightly controlled without the aid of the air pressure of a sealed cab. G12M Greenbacks and the like can a get a bit farty opened back because they don't have the air pressure to help keep the cone movements more tightly controlled.

The thing about Alnico magnets in speakers, and in part why they usually sound more dynamic, is that the Alnico conducts and this leads to a slighlty less harsh highs when you dig in (by virtue of it making the cone start to move more gradually), but without loosing the chime and brightness. For lower wattage open backed applications an Alnico like the Celestion Blue or the EMi Red Fang are very popular, but the G12H30 sounds so good for a lower cost..........
Click to expand...

nice update-thnx for the info
:beerchug:
 
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