2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a daisy c

[walters]

2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a daisy c

The real question is if all your pedals run off of CENTER NEGATIVE and your daisy chain them but one of them doesn't work but it only works in center negative NOT center positive this is the mystery also about daisy chaining effects, even tho all your pedals power up center negative but one is not working causing a short shuting down the power supply why is the question. It has to do with how each pedal is grounded internally so this is another problem about daisy chaining I'm running it to

How can 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a daisy chained power supply and why does it do this please?

 

[Artie]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

The fact that you say that a pedal worked one way, but not the other, implies that you tried it both ways, which may have damaged the pedal. It makes no difference if a pedal is center-negative or center-positive. If everything is connected properly, you wouldn't have any shorts or connection incompatibilities.

Put a meter on the output wire of your power supply, (while its unplugged from the wall), and plug in pedals one at a time until you read close to a short. That will be the "dead" pedal. This isn't gauranteed of finding the problem, but it might. If you fried a protection diode, it could read almost anything.

 

[walters]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

I found the dead pedal that was causing the short but its still working only in center negative, the other pedals are center negative also but for some reason when i apply power the dead pedal it shuts down the power supply it doesn't make sense. The power supply is daisy chained center negative and all the pedals only work in center negative operations but its weird on some pedals even tho its center negative will still cause a short.

All i can think of is that in the dead pedal input jack has a way to ground which is shorting out the power supply or the dead pedal has a path to ground somewhere inside

everything is connected properly thats what weird i tried reverse polarity converters still doesn't work it just shuts off the pedals

you wouldn't have any shorts or connection incompatibilities.

Yes i'm getting a short even when all the guitar pedals are connected properly
polarity. There is a way the daisy chain power supply is finding a way to ground internal inside the dead pedal

The deal pedal is center positive and the daisy chain is center positive. The dead pedal will work properly no problem. The dead pedal will only have a problem when other center positive pedals added

Rules:

1.) Dead pedal works alone by itself with the daisy chain power supply

2.) Dead pedal will NOT work and shut down the power supply when a another pedal is added to the daisy chain power supply, even the polarity's are the same it causes a shot why i don't know

3.) This has to do to the fact its a daisy chain power supply and the dead pedal has a path to ground somewhere causing the daisy chain power supply to shut down

This has nothing to do with overexceeding the power supply cause

pedal#1 is 500uA microamps

Dead pedal is 4 milliamps

The Gator power supply is .25A or 250mA total

 

[walters]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Since i found the dead pedal how can i make it work with the daisy chain power supply cause the dead pedal will only work in center negative , like the other pedals but not added with the other pedals only when its by itself which is weird

1.) How can i "isolate" the grounds from the Dead pedal to the other pedals??

2.) Would a ground lift work ?

3.) Reversing the polarity doesn't work either, it solves the problem of not shutting down the power supply but the dead pedal has no juice going to the circuit so this doesn't work either

4.) Somehow the Positive hot lead is getting shorted to ground in the dead pedal since it is how can i "isolate" it so it doesn't short out the daisy chain power supply?

5.) Whats weird is that is doesn't short out or shut down when its by itself in center negative, only when another guitar pedal that is center negative also is added in the daisy chain power supply but why? when they are the same polarity it just doesn't make anysence at all

 

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

the truth of the matter could be that pedal simply requires too much power to be run simultaneous with other pedals.....just a thought

 

[Toner]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

1). If you put this "dead" pedal first in the pedal chain, does it still cause the same problem?
2). Maybe there is an internal problem with one of the plugs on the daisy chain or any plug after a certain one in the chain?
3). Try a new daisy chain cable, like $15 at guitar center or maybe a friend has one to try?
4). All contacts cleaned with contact cleaner and free of surface gunk?

(just trying some suggestions).

Are you daisy chaining from the output of a boss pedal like a TU-2 or line switcher?

It makes no sense to me that the pedal would work fine then cut out once another pedal is plugged into the same daisy chain, unless the mA rating on the power supply was being exceeded by the total draw of the 2 pedals being higher than what the PS can put out. You can have a higher mA than the pedal itself because the pedal will only draw what it needs.

1 microamperes (uA) = 0.001 milliamperes (mA)
1 milliamperes (mA) = 1,000 microamperes (uA)

looks like you have that down.

pedal#1 is 500uA microamps Dead pedal is 4 milliamps
The Gator power supply is .25A or 250mA total

They both require DC power correct? I have a digitech whammy pedal that is 9VAC and I assumed it was DC and was causing all kinds of problems, the pedal would light up and everything with the DC but didn't work right and it was annoying the hell outta me until I happened to notice the one letter difference on the recommend power supply of AC not DC.

We will figure this thing out eventually.

 

[millsart]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

The Chicago Iron Octavio is center negative but for some reason can't be daisy chained with any other pedals or they all short out as well.

The solution is simply to use a dedicated adaptor for the pedal. $15 and your in business

Or I think the Voodoo Lab power brick would actually work as well though its more like $135 as it provided dedicated circuits for each lead instead of needing to daisy chain

 

[ErikH]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Let me get this straight, you're trying to power a center negative pedal with a center positive power supply? If that is what I'm getting out of this, THAT is the problem. You CANNOT power a center negative pedal with a center positive power supply. That is reverse polarity and exactly why everything shorts out when you hook that pedal up to the daisy chain.

Solution: dedicated center negative power supply for that one pedal.

What pedals are we talking about here? Which one is causing the problem?

 

[walters]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

you're trying to power a center negative pedal with a center ""negative daisy chain power supply? YES not Positive its negative and it will cause a short

1.) If you put this "dead" pedal first in the pedal chain, does it still cause the same problem?

IT doesn't matter its not about the audio order its about when you just try to power it up with another pedal it just cuts/shuts the power supply down

2). Maybe there is an internal problem with one of the plugs on the daisy chain or any plug after a certain one in the chain?

No NO NO i tried it

3). Try a new daisy chain cable, like $15 at guitar center or maybe a friend has one to try?

No it has nothing to do with the wires

4). All contacts cleaned with contact cleaner and free of surface gunk?

No nothing to do with it at all

5.) Are you daisy chaining from the output of a boss pedal like a TU-2 or line switcher?

No its a GATOR 8 buss daisy chain power supply it looks like a dunlop brick
The GATOR 8 is center negative ( not positive)

6.) It makes no sense to me that the pedal would work fine then cut out once another pedal is plugged into the same daisy chain

Yes its happening it just don't make any sence , and it will only work in the same polarity as my other pedals which is center negative

7.) unless the mA rating on the power supply was being exceeded by the total draw of the 2 pedals being higher than what the PS can put out. You can have a higher mA than the pedal itself because the pedal will only draw what it needs.

1 microamperes (uA) = 0.001 milliamperes (mA)
1 milliamperes (mA) = 1,000 microamperes (uA)

4 mA + 500uA = ? doesn't exceed the Gator 8 buss power supply

pedal#1 is 500uA microamps Dead pedal is 4 milliamps
The Gator power supply is .25A or 250mA total

 

[walters]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

You CANNOT power a center negative pedal with a center positive power supply. That is reverse polarity and exactly why everything shorts out when you hook that pedal up to the daisy chain.


Since I'm using a daisy chain power supply how can you hook up "Reverse polarity" pedals without it shorting out or shutting down the power supply?

Since my GATOR 8 buss power supply is center negative, lets just assume that this dead pedal is reverse polarity , how can i plug this reverse polarity dead pedal in without it shutting shorting it out?

Since the octavio is revserse polarity how can you plug this in to a daisy chain without it shorting shuting down the power supply?

 

[Toner]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Sounds like you know the problem then. Either Pop the pedals apart and switch the red/black wires on the 9v input to match the daisy chain or use seperate power supplies.

I don't like having mounds of power supplies so I would opt to easily swap the internal wire around.

 

[ErikH]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

You CANNOT power a center negative pedal with a center positive power supply. That is reverse polarity and exactly why everything shorts out when you hook that pedal up to the daisy chain.


Since I'm using a daisy chain power supply how can you hook up "Reverse polarity" pedals without it shorting out or shutting down the power supply?

Since my GATOR 8 buss power supply is center negative, lets just assume that this dead pedal is reverse polarity , how can i plug this reverse polarity dead pedal in without it shutting shorting it out?

Since the octavio is revserse polarity how can you plug this in to a daisy chain without it shorting shuting down the power supply?

You can't, plain and simple. You must use a proper polarity power supply for that pedal if reverse polarity indeed is the problem, even if it means an extra wall-wart on the power strip.

We have it clear now....all your pedals are center negative, the power supply is center negative. This one pedal causing the issues you say is center negative as well. To confirm that, what is the make and model if this pedal?

 

[ErikH]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Sounds like you know the problem then. Either Pop the pedals apart and switch the red/black wires on the 9v input to match the daisy chain or use seperate power supplies.

I don't like having mounds of power supplies so I would opt to easily swap the internal wire around.

You can't just go in and flip the wires around. You're more than likely going to fry a couple components that way. It sounds easy, and can be, but a little investigation needs to be done too.

 

[devastone]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

You CANNOT power a center negative pedal with a center positive power supply. That is reverse polarity and exactly why everything shorts out when you hook that pedal up to the daisy chain.


Since I'm using a daisy chain power supply how can you hook up "Reverse polarity" pedals without it shorting out or shutting down the power supply?

Since my GATOR 8 buss power supply is center negative, lets just assume that this dead pedal is reverse polarity , how can i plug this reverse polarity dead pedal in without it shutting shorting it out?

Since the octavio is revserse polarity how can you plug this in to a daisy chain without it shorting shuting down the power supply?

You can't. What is the pedal? If it is some kind of fuzz(?), it probably uses PNP transistors and requires reverse polarity. Sure, the pedal makers can hook up the supply plug on it to be center negative, it matters what they do with the voltage in the circuit, the plug doesn't dictate anything about the circuit. In fact, that is probably what they are doing with the Chicago Iron pedal as convenience to the user, it's harder to find opposite polarity power supplies. If it is reversed inside the box, the + side is probably connected to ground. Everything will be hunky dory until you plug in another pedal that has - hooked to ground, then you create a dead short between + and -.

So, you need another supply.

 

[Toner]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Companies trying to get you to buy their power supplies so they make things reversed or different that they need to be.

What other reason would there be to switch positive and ground between center and sleeve?

Same thing with gibson style pickup selector switches, there's like 4-5 different thread patterns/locking nuts between diffferent guitars! Seriously, c'mon now.

 

[walters]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Yes on the outside of the pedal house its center negative but inside they must switch/swap the wires inside so it much be center positive or positive ground


What can you hook up to a daisy chain supply to make it "isolate" the grounds or "reference" so you can hoook up a reverse polarity dead pedals up to it?

 

[millsart]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Companies trying to get you to buy their power supplies so they make things reversed or different that they need to be.

Companies can't win. They try to make it easy for the user to use a standard neg center PS as those are the most common and practial for the user, however due to the ground you can't daisy chain it and then people complain.

They make it negative tip and then people complain about why couldn't they reverse it so that it works with a standard power supply.

Then everyone has to think its some big scam to sell a power supply as well simply because a company tried to make an authentic PNP circuit.


Simply use a battery, buy a dedicated adapter or if you really value being able to use a single brick that badly, get something like the Voodoo Labs setup which provides isolated power to each effect. Sadly it cost about 4 times as much as a One Spot or similar

 

[Toner]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Then everyone has to think its some big scam to sell a power supply as well simply because a company tried to make an authentic PNP circuit.

It's not a plot to get you to buy THEIR power supply? Then what would be a logical reason that they would have to reverse the tip/sleeve and make it different that 95% of pedals out there?

power and ground is power and ground. If I have to go in and switch the wires, so be it, I refuse to have a power strip of wall warts and I refuse to pay that ungodly amount for a power distribution block like the voodoo labs (what happens if this brick breaks? sell a kidney on the black market to buy another?!?!, wait for warranty replacement, I don't have time for that crap when I am on the road). I'd rather make all my pedals the same. old DOD, i put a standard 9v adapter in (reversed the battery box and drilled a hole in it, i can use either power supply for that pedal if needed), Vox847 wah no ps adapter at all, I put one in. A 9vDC adapter is relatively cheap and so is a daisy chain cable, every guitarist needs a good tuner, I use the boss TU-2 which happens to have a 9v output to plug the daisy chain in from, perfect, and if that tuner goes out and my backup goes out for whatever reason I can't use the daisy chain anymore? nope, i took 2 female 9v plugs and made an adapter, plug the wall wart into one end and the daisy chain into the other, blau!!!

I won't fall victim to these stupid marketing scams to get you to buy more ****, because that's all it is, 9VDC is 9VDC, tip/sleve, doesn't matter which has the power/ground, so stop fuggin with us and make the adapters 1 way. Bull****!

 

[ErikH]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

What can you hook up to a daisy chain supply to make it "isolate" the grounds or "reference" so you can hoook up a reverse polarity dead pedals up to it?

NOTHING, you need a dedicated power supply for that pedal.

Once again, what pedal is it? SPECIFIC MAKE AND MODEL, PLEASE! Thank you.

 

[ErikH]

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

Re: 2 effects both powered by "center negative" can cause a SHORT shutting down a dai

It's not a plot to get you to buy THEIR power supply? Then what would be a logical reason that they would have to reverse the tip/sleeve and make it different that 95% of pedals out there?

power and ground is power and ground. If I have to go in and switch the wires, so be it, I refuse to have a power strip of wall warts and I refuse to pay that ungodly amount for a power distribution block like the voodoo labs. I'd rather make all my pedals the same. old DOD, i put a standard 9v adapter in (reversed the battery box and drilled a hole in it, i can use either power supply for that pedal if needed), Vox847 wah no ps adapter at all, I put one in.

I won't fall victim to these stupid marketing scams to get you to buy more ****, because that's all it is, 9VDC is 9VDC, tip/sleve, doesn't matter which has the power/ground, so stop fuggin with us and make the adapters 1 way. Bull****!

Sounds simple, sure. But some circuits run on positive ground. Like said, you cannot just go in and switch wires and expect it to work all hunky dory. Components can get fried doing that.