2016 ES-339 Wiring

Steve B.

New member
Does anyone know if the latest version of the ES-339 is still using the so called 'Memphis Tone Circuit' aka 50's style wiring. I ask because it appears that they changed the neck capacitor value to .015uF and started using 500K linear taper pots for the volume controls according to the specs on the website. Additionally, are they still using ceramic caps?

Thanks in advance,

Steve
 
Re: 2016 ES-339 Wiring

Does anyone know if the latest version of the ES-339 is still using the so called 'Memphis Tone Circuit' aka 50's style wiring. I ask because it appears that they changed the neck capacitor value to .015uF and started using 500K linear taper pots for the volume controls according to the specs on the website. Additionally, are they still using ceramic caps?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

The Custom Shop says that they use bumblebee caps but those are also like $130 for one so.... I'm guessing that they are still using Ceramics. They did an article a while back about how different types of capacitors don't affect tone.

The only way to know for sure what circuit they're using is by going down and trying one out. If you put it in the middle toggle and then roll off the neck pickup and you can still hear the bridge, then it's 50's wiring, which is my preferred. I love independent volume controls to blend in different amounts of pickups.
 
Re: 2016 ES-339 Wiring

The Custom Shop says that they use bumblebee caps but those are also like $130 for one so.... I'm guessing that they are still using Ceramics. They did an article a while back about how different types of capacitors don't affect tone.

The only way to know for sure what circuit they're using is by going down and trying one out. If you put it in the middle toggle and then roll off the neck pickup and you can still hear the bridge, then it's 50's wiring, which is my preferred. I love independent volume controls to blend in different amounts of pickups.

The Gibson Bumblebee caps are fake; they're just metal film caps with a striped casing. You can get essentially identical performance from orange drops or any decent non-ceramic cap.
 
Re: 2016 ES-339 Wiring

The Gibson Bumblebee caps are fake; they're just metal film caps with a striped casing. You can get essentially identical performance from orange drops or any decent non-ceramic cap.

I tried searching for something that indicated what they were using in their 2016 line and that was the closest thing that I could find. I also put in the qualifier "The Custom Shop says" not necessarily meaning that they do.

I'd definitely go with the orange drops over the ceramics.
 
Re: 2016 ES-339 Wiring

The Custom Shop says that they use bumblebee caps but those are also like $130 for one so.... I'm guessing that they are still using Ceramics. They did an article a while back about how different types of capacitors don't affect tone.

/QUOTE]

Or as I like to put it, the electrons don't actually know whether they are sloshing around inside a $130 bumblebee or a 3¢ ceramic cap from RadioShack...
 
Re: 2016 ES-339 Wiring

Or as I like to put it, the electrons don't actually know whether they are sloshing around inside a $130 bumblebee or a 3¢ ceramic cap from RadioShack...

That's essentially true, provided that all things are equal. The problem with ceramics is that they're sensitive to all sorts of factors that can change the cap value, and that WILL change the way the electrons "slosh around inside". OTOH PIO caps are absolutely a waste of money IMO; they don't work any better (and may degrade worse) than other (non-ceramic) caps while costing far more.
 
Re: 2016 ES-339 Wiring

The Custom Shop says that they use bumblebee caps but those are also like $130 for one so.... I'm guessing that they are still using Ceramics. They did an article a while back about how different types of capacitors don't affect tone.

/QUOTE]

Or as I like to put it, the electrons don't actually know whether they are sloshing around inside a $130 bumblebee or a 3¢ ceramic cap from RadioShack...

Cheap ceramics leak and do not discharge consistently, which indeed alters their value and that problem is audible. All other caps of the same rating will sound the same in the circuit, however.
 
Re: 2016 ES-339 Wiring

Cheap ceramics leak and do not discharge consistently, which indeed alters their value and that problem is audible. All other caps of the same rating will sound the same in the circuit, however.

This is true, and in electronic circuits where significant currents are flowing it's an important factor, but we are talking about a low stress environment inside the passive tone circuit of a guitar. In this application the charge/discharge cycle time, leak threshold voltage and breakdown voltage are barely relevant.

The more important point here is that just because something is "vintage" doesn't mean it either sounds better or even different. Paper and oil capacitors, as used in many guitars of the 60s physically dry out and (literally) leak and change over time. There is a view held by vintage purists that if you want to duplicate a "vintage tone" you must physically duplicate the hardware that created that tone, so these people demand the bumblebee caps and other assorted BS. But Gibson used Sprague caps not because they were "better" but because they were available; just as Leo Fender used the 3/16 diameter Alnico slugs from auto magnetos for his single coil pickups. They may actually have been the best available in their time, but technology moves. No-one these days would choose a black and white TV over a colour one, or a Commodore or Acorn over a modern PC or Mac. Only the "audiophile" community seems to be hung up old tech...

If we look at the Mylar film caps that are far more common in passive guitar tone controls than ceramics (ceramics and tantalum beads are often found in treble bleeds but not so often in passive low-pass filters) then I defy anyone to tell the difference between an orange drop costing £5 and and a "standard" mylar film cap costing £5 for a pack of 50. Objectively, the orange drop may be better; it may have heavier lead wires which break less easily; it may have, say, a 1% tolerance rather than a 5% and it may have a higher leak voltage and breakdown voltage, neither of which has much relevance in a simple tone circuit handling currents that are barely even measurable, but I genuinely believe that any perceived difference in tone is entirely in the mind of the user.
 
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