2019 Gibson Lineup

[Adieu]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

You ever play one, or is this hatred based off mere speculation and aesthetics?

Aesthetics, obviously.

Why, your local guitar store let redneck looking ponytailed sumbiches get their grubby paws on $5k guitars?

Our local ones would prolly make me prove I got real Lincoln and BMW keys on my keychain and not just for show and verify my high-700s credit before even letting me so much as breathe in its direction

 

[Adieu]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Separate subject...Gibson's only significant competition is Fender...Will the evolving guitarist choose SG/Les Paul or Tele/Strat...when he/she reaches the level of wanting a professional grade instrument the price range for both companies is between 1200 and 3500...
That is very little money relatively speaking....gaming computers, entertainment centers, automobile options, etc go for more than that...

Aren't you forgetting PRS, ESP, and Ibanez?

They wouldn't even exist if Gibson hadn't dropped the ball. Especially ESP, that started out intruding in Fender territory but quickly switched to poaching from Gibson customers... same with Ibanez, btw.

Anyone notice how there's very little intrusion onto Fender turf from big names these days, just the $99 knockoff crowd??? That itself ought to say something

 

[Chistopher]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Aesthetics, obviously.

Why, your local guitar store let redneck looking ponytailed sumbiches get their grubby paws on $5k guitars?

Yes, and if they didn't I would get them on discrimination.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Aren't you forgetting PRS, ESP, and Ibanez?

They wouldn't even exist if Gibson hadn't dropped the ball. Especially ESP, that started out intruding in Fender territory but quickly switched to poaching from Gibson customers... same with Ibanez, btw.

Anyone notice how there's very little intrusion onto Fender turf from big names these days, just the $99 knockoff crowd??? That itself ought to say something

+1
"They wouldn't even exist if Gibson hadn't dropped the ball. Especially ESP, that started out intruding in Fender territory but quickly switched to poaching from Gibson customers... same with Ibanez, btw."

And don't forget Yamaha-

And with all of their problems, Fender's overarching model is excellent-

• They hired in gurus from Yamaha to maximize processes
• They have always cross sold amps and pro gear which gives dealers great cross sales opportunities
• And most important, they have the portfolio extremely well balanced with clear offerings across Squire, MIM, MIJ, US and Custom-

It's pretty easy to compare Fender value points and extremely difficult to do the same with Gibson- And Fender announced approaches to new markets long and are investing in women and newbies.

 

[Aceman]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

I said this a couple of years ago about th Les PAul BFG. Everyone was all moist panties about it. But when I asked “OK - if it is so effing cool, who has dropped $3200 for half-finished LP with a P-90 in th neck only?” Or something like that, anyone. How many positive replies? Zip, nada, nothing.

That is th market SCREAMING “You F&^&ed up Gibson!!!!!!!!!”

Modern double cut - same thing. You can get that, or this:

 

[justFred]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

take a look at 3rd installment for strategies to get the most out of Epi + Gibson

https://www.guitaryoudreamabout.com...eps-Messaging-works-when-you-know-who-you-are

seriously Michael...(we are just talking about the guitar segment of Gibson)...your in depth analysis shows Gibson is failing for a multitude of significant errors related to how a business should operate...let's stop for a minute and assume the stated information provided that Gibson guitar is accurate: Gibson guitar is profitable, growing revenues and is gaining share in it's market segment...
how is this possible within the definitions you are using for your study???
Either Gibson is lying...considering that they are under very close scrutiny by the BK court that is doubtful but I guess possible.
or
there is something else going on that your analysis doesn't account for. If so, what might that be?
It has to be one or the other doesn't it?

For example:
"According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way that a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. ... Aeroplanes can fly because of a careful balance of four physical forces: lift, drag, weight, and thrust.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Gibson guitar is profitable, growing revenues and is gaining share in it's market segment...

Fred, seems like we're talking in circles- we are talking past each other or something is getting lost in the translation so here's one last summary-
1. Gibson has made classic mistakes that can be fixed-
2. If they can erase all debt and liabilities they could be profitable- It is possible that they are in the midst of making this happen
3. They have lost significant market share, mind share and brand power
4. CH11 could be a turn around for them if they put the customer first, refocus products, rebuild dealerships and modernize processes.

So will they emerge profitable? Will they grow?

It's too early to tell, but it's a great case study for business transformation either way.

 

[justFred]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Got it.
We are looking at two completely different things...

 

[Blille]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Soooooo....

Who’s getting a 2019 Gibson? [emoji23]

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Lmao

 

[justFred]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

me:

when the price comes down in six months...

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Soooooo....

Who’s getting a 2019 Gibson? [emoji23]

Adieu wont be getting one. His redneck looking ponytail and his grubby sum***** paws can't hold one, cuz they're full with Lincoln and BMW keys in one and a 700+ credit score in the other.

 

[Blille]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

me:

when the price comes down in six months...

When you sell it another 6 months later please use the trading post

Adieu wont be getting one. His redneck looking ponytail and his grubby sum***** paws can't hold one, cuz they're full with Lincoln and BMW keys in one and a 700+ credit score in the other.

Pretty sure by now he’s got a T-shirt with that credit score printed for Guitar shopping days.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

me:

when the price comes down in six months...

I bought a similar Godin, a Montreal Premiere. No way a Gibson could be sold at the price I bought it for (brand new).

 

[Jacew]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

There were no robo tuners and Firebird X around in the days when PRS first launched, and that is when the multi-hundred dollar price increases from Gibson started. It was a direct response to the then new PRS sky-high guitar prices, they were much more costly than anything on the market at that time, and Gibson obviously took PR Smith's comments as as a slap in the face to their company. I used to check out the new Gibsons every year in the Musician's Friend and similar catalogs, I noted each year pre-PRS that Gibson prices would creep up maybe $50 each year and I thought that was weird, when PRS started making an impact on their sales I suddenly saw annual $200 or so price increases in Gibson guitars. I could see it was in response to PRS and the fact they were getting ridiculous prices for guitars that were similar in quality (in Gibsons' eyes), and they greedily wanted their slice of that pie. In 1992 I could get an SG Standard for 700 bucks, LP's were only a little bit more. Just look how much those prices have escalated since then, it certainly isn't in line with inflation.
I was only talking about one point, the annual massive price increases, and I hold PRS's entry into the market, making quality guitars but gouging as much out of the buyers as they could, directly responsible for those crazy Gibson price increases. It was evident if you watched the guitar market as closely as I did, and others also did. After that came the "Gibson" lifestyle crap, which was IMO their way to explain away their new pricing structure. The insane attempts at marketing bizarre guitars that nobody wanted came later.
Whatever, I just wanted to make a point that I have believed for a long time. Those remarks from Paul Reed Smith were in an article, probably in Guitar Player Magazine (which I read constantly from the time I was a young guitar player), where a group of guitar makers discussed the guitar market at the time, and his remarks made me want to puke. Guitarists SHOULD(?) pay big bucks for electric guitars, what balls to make a statement like that, but it seems a lot of people ignored his intent to wring as much money out of them as possible and PRS was successful, which impacted the market in a bad way.
Al

SG Standard for 700 in 1992 means that current equal price now would be 1300 counting in inflation.

It's now listed around 1500 so it's 200 dollar increase in 25 years. Not per year...

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

I bought a similar Godin, a Montreal Premiere. No way a Gibson could be sold at the price I bought it for (brand new).

I keep hearing NOTHING but good things about Godin. When I look to get a semi hollow I may have to look into one. There have been a few threads lately.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

Well I picked my Godin Seagull Cameo Artist over the Taylors and other not so cheap brands we had in the store then.

 

[justFred]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

I bought a similar Godin, a Montreal Premiere. No way a Gibson could be sold at the price I bought it for (brand new).

You get an artist discount I bet...Godin like this is $2,100+....Gibson's price is $1,799...

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

It still sounds to me like you’re trying to blame PRS for Gibson’s decisions. I didn’t read the article you’re talking about, so it’s possible that my context is off, but here’s what I see happening with the whole PRS/Gibson thing:

Paul Reed Smith saw that there was a market for high end guitars that he could break into by providing beautiful finishes, attention to detail, and all-around high quality. He felt that he could ask a very high price for these features and that there were enough people who would buy them that he could make a nice profit doing it. This is capitalism 101... find a market, provide a product, and make money.

Keep in mind that your PERSONAL opinions of value don’t necessarily line up with the market. If there are enough people who think something is worth it, it will sell. You can be pissed at PR Smith’s comments all you want, but the fact is that he was right and has been successful because of it. A comment like “guitarists should pay more” is the kind of comment that sets your brand a few notches above the others in the eyes of the market.

Did Gibson try to jump on the bandwagon? Probably. But they obviously did a half-ass job of it. No matter the outcome, it was GIBSON’S decision to follow the PRS example. Nobody forced them to do it (except management of course). PRS did it and it worked. Gibson tried to copy and failed... it’s just business and it’s certainly not PRS’ fault.

If one doesn’t like PRS or feels like their products are not worth their prices, don’t buy one.

If one doesn’t like Gibson or feels like their products are not worth their prices, don’t buy one.

It’s a free, open market and there are lots of great guitars being made nowadays to choose from.

I was only addressing one point made by another poster, annual large price increases in Gibson products. I was not blaming PRS for all of Gibson's problems, I was specifically talking about about one aspect, and I still think it was in response to PRS's high prices (which IMO were overpriced from the start despite any perceived better quality or innovation). Gibson guitars were a quality product at that time, if anything they have given us cheaper hardware and less QC since then on many models, and yet still raise their prices substantially, and during a period when Asian manufacture was getting better and better with each year, for much less. I'm not going to keep debating this any more, I made a point I believe to be true based on my observation of the guitar market since the advent of PRS guitars and their philosophy of wringing the most money out of players that they can, effectively putting their guitars (and with Gibson following suit, their guitars) out of reach of most struggling working musicians. I do not feel compelled to buy any PRS guitar with their gaudy overblown tops, which I never cared for in the first place, other than maybe their cheaper Asian-made line, and as for Gibson, there are very few of their models that I would like to own these days other than the higher priced models (Custom Shop, Historic,etc.) that I can't afford. That is sad to me, and quite different compared to how I felt about Gibson in the past. I hope with the changeover at Gibson they will improve things, that remains to be seen. I do agree with you about the guitar market these days, and the last few guitars I have bought have been excellent Asian-made ones. The newest Gibsons I have are from the 90's.
Al

 

[Darg1911]

Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

You get an artist discount I bet...Godin like this is $2,100+....Gibson's price is $1,799...

The line has changed some over the last couple of years with a few models with different features added but the current Montreal Premier HG has a MAP of $1595. They have SD pickups now. I got mine a couple of years ago for right at 1K, new. That was when they had Godin branded G&B pickups (which I really like and have had no desire to swap out). For a Godin guitar to be sold as a "blemish" (they call it SF) doesn't take much at all so they pop up often enough. That's how I got mine. It was flawless other than the clear poly (or whatever they use) was applied a touch too heavy on the front side of the headstock.