3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice versa

[Rez]

Hi All,

I just wired my new SH-1 59 Blues Set (neck and bridge) along with Les Paul electronics (pots, 3 way switch and output jack) in my Epiphone Dot. The pickups are single conductor. Anyway, I tested the wiring before I fed the harness back into the body by tapping a screwdriver on the pickup poles.

Each pickup seems to work fine.. volume and tone.. however, when I have the 3 way switch in the middle (neck & bridge) and lower one of the volumes all the way (neck or bridge) the sound goes out (silence) altogether.

I'm not sure if when I put on the strings if it will seem normal as once was... When I have the switch in the middle, I would like to be able to tweak the volume and tone for both neck and bridge at the same time and hear the difference and be able to lower bridge all the way and yet still pickup (hear) the neck...

Should I have gotten 4 conductor instead of single? If so, how can I make this work with my single conductor pickups?

Thanks...

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Crap. Where's a 50's wiring diagram when you need one?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

+1

You need to rewire for independent volume controls. Essentially, this involves swapping where two wires are connected on each volume pot.

 

[AlexR]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

I think you'll find every stock wiring scheme does this, even the one you would have come from before the upgrade.

Independent volume controls does weird things to the taper or the tone rolloff from what I remember. I had my guitar on 50's wiring with independent volumes, and the switch to dependent was so much better that I never did that scheme again.

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

+1

You need to rewire for independent volume controls. Essentially, this involves swapping where two wires are connected on each volume pot.

That's what I ended up doing last night... I think. Correct me if I'm wrong... as per the wiring diagrams that came with my LP electronics... I ran wire from each volume to the ground on the output jack... Does that sound right?

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

I think you'll find every stock wiring scheme does this, even the one you would have come from before the upgrade.

Independent volume controls does weird things to the taper or the tone rolloff from what I remember. I had my guitar on 50's wiring with independent volumes, and the switch to dependent was so much better that I never did that scheme again.

That's what I ended up doing last night... I think. Correct me if I'm wrong... as per the wiring diagrams that came with my LP electronics... I ran wire from each volume to the ground on the output jack... Does that sound right?

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

I wired it as it states in the Les Paul diagram. Does this seem right?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

That's what I ended up doing last night... I think. Correct me if I'm wrong... as per the wiring diagrams that came with my LP electronics... I ran wire from each volume to the ground on the output jack... Does that sound right?

No. If all of your parts are grounded to each other (back of pots, bridge, switch), then you only need one ground wire to your jack.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

View attachment 43522View attachment 43523 I wired it as it states in the Les Paul diagram. Does this seem right?

In your last diagram, where your cap is soldered to the first lug on each vol pot, remove it and solder it to the center lug on the vol pot (with the wire that goes to the switch).

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

In your last diagram, where your cap is soldered to the first lug on each vol pot, remove it and solder it to the center lug on the vol pot (with the wire that goes to the switch).

Thanks. I'll give that a whirl tonight. In your previous post you said "If all of your parts are grounded to each other (back of pots, bridge, switch), then you only need one ground wire to your jack"... should I remove one of those wires that go to the volume pots? Or can I leave as is? Does it / will it make a difference?

So what's the deal with that Les Paul diagram? Why is it wired that way (caps to outside lug)?

Also, the wiring diagram for the "Single Conductor Humbuckers"... the caps are on the outside lugs instead of the center... what's the reason for that?

Thanks again!

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

So what's the deal with that Les Paul diagram? Why is it wired that way (caps to outside lug)?

Also, the wiring diagram for the "Single Conductor Humbuckers"... the caps are on the outside lugs instead of the center... what's the reason for that?

I think I answered this in another thread, but on the tone pot, it doesn't matter. A tone pot has a linear taper, so whether you treat the outside lug as the input, or the middle wiper lug as the input, you still will get the same resistance value between the two lugs.

What you don't want to do is wire to the wrong outside lug because then the knob will turn the wrong direction.

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

I think I answered this in another thread, but on the tone pot, it doesn't matter. A tone pot has a linear taper, so whether you treat the outside lug as the input, or the middle wiper lug as the input, you still will get the same resistance value between the two lugs.

What you don't want to do is wire to the wrong outside lug because then the knob will turn the wrong direction.

Gotcha... but for the volume pot... I would want the cap in the center lug... in my situation.. correct?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Yes

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Yes

Thanks! I'm assuming that your "Yes" is to remove one of the extra wires to the volume pot.... would that be a correct assumption? :scratchch

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Ok guys . . . forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're mixing up several different things here.

1. Volume pot 50's wiring. (And I'm not sure the correct name for this is "50's wiring".)
2. Tone pot 50's wiring.
3. Cap placement.
4. Grounding.

The volume pot difference is this:



The Tone pot difference is this:



These eight different ways to connect a tone-pot/cap placement are all electrically identical.



As far as grounding goes, its just not critical in a guitar. One wire that runs from one ground point to another, or individual lines, (star grounding), will all work equally as well. The only thing thats important is that you eventually end up back at the ground lug of the output jack.

Hope this helps.

Artie

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Ok guys . . . forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're mixing up several different things here.

1. Volume pot 50's wiring. (And I'm not sure the correct name for this is "50's wiring".)
2. Tone pot 50's wiring.
3. Cap placement.
4. Grounding.

The volume pot difference is this:

View attachment 43561

The Tone pot difference is this:

View attachment 43564

These eight different ways to connect a tone-pot/cap placement are all electrically identical.

View attachment 43563

As far as grounding goes, its just not critical in a guitar. One wire that runs from one ground point to another, or individual lines, (star grounding), will all work equally as well. The only thing thats important is that you eventually end up back at the ground lug of the output jack.

Hope this helps.

Artie

Thanks Artie,

So if I want to be able to turn down any volume or tone when the tone switch is in the middle position without killing the other pickup / sound, it seems as if I would want the first (top) diagram / right hand side... does that seem correct?

Also, what is the difference regarding the location of the caps on the volume pots? Does it create a different tone?

 

[AlexR]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Yes, top right for independent volumes.

The 50's tone pot wiring essentially gives brighter tone as you turn down the volume. The electronics explanation is that the tone cap is isolated from the volume pot resistor, meaning it acts very similarly irrespective of the position of the volume. This is similar to having a treble bleed, but without having to buy extra parts.

 

[Rez]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Thanks AlexR! Good to know. I originally thought this project would take about 2 hours.... I didn't account for lack of knowledge and how things work though... :eyecrazy:

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Yup. Alex beat me to it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: 3 way switch in middle. Lower the neck all the way, the bridge goes out. vice ve

Ok guys . . . forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're mixing up several different things here.

1. Volume pot 50's wiring. (And I'm not sure the correct name for this is "50's wiring".)
2. Tone pot 50's wiring.
3. Cap placement.
4. Grounding.

Hope this helps.

Artie

Great job Artie.

Just one correction, if you want to call it that. The difference in vol pot wiring that you're refering to would be refered to as "independent volumes" rather than "50's wiring". Really, the 50's wiring is how the tone pots are wired to create a kind of treble bleed mod (IIRC), and you are absolutely correct with your diagrams.

So what we are recommending to the OP is "independent volumes - 50's wiring". Usually these two features are lumped together and just simply refered to as "50's wiring".