3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Hey gang!

I've been building my first DIY guitar. After many hours of learning through trial and error I finally ALMOST have it nailed down. I decided if it was worth making my own guitar - I might as well make one that I can't buy. So I've got with a H-S-H strat with individual switches and stacked pots for each pickup. It's nearly finished but there are a couple of gremlins in the system.

Currently, I'm confident that that stacked pots are wired properly within themselves. Beyond that, I have the pickups going to the pots, then the pots to the switches, then the three output wires from the switches are spliced to a single wire to the jackhole. Everything is grounded to the middle pot (they are mini-pots btw), and then a wire runs from that to the jackhole, and also the spring claw. The switches are the only thing that aren't grounded, but I don't see that they necessarily would need to be.

The gremlins are that the neck pot seems to inexplicably act as a master volume when all pickups are switched on (kind of a happy accident, i don't mind that). The middle pickup cuts out when set to 10, but only when the neck pickup is also switched on, and it's fine if I dial it back to 9.

The Bridge pickup is very tinny and not as loud as the neck pickup. The neck pickup is a medium output (DiMarzio I think?), and the Bridge pickup is a Schaller "Hot Stuff", which is supposed to be SUPER loud. It's been a lot louder with other schematics I've tried.

One thing to mention is that the jackhole is stereo, should I try connecting the tip and sleeve together? Also a lot of these problems seem to shift about when I mess with the grounding, like a game of whack-a-mole.

Do the ground wires need to be soldered to a pot for any particular reason, or is it just a neat place to put them? Could I just ground everything together onto the copper tape on the pickguard (and then the jackhole)? On that note - If the pots are screwed firmly against said copper tape - can I just send a wire from the pickguard to the jackhole?

I haven't given any thought to the gauge wire I'm using. Should I? Is it possible I'm overloading it a bit, or even the amp (the amp's a Line 6, and sometimes it likes to say "F*** you, I'm doing my own thing" with all sorts of compensation that I didn't ask for. Some day I'm gonna sell it and get a Peavey. Peaveys do as they're told - even if it means dying for you)? With all three pickups switched on - it's quieter than with any single one on.

Sorry for the essay. It's a bit of a convoluted design and it's my first go. I swear I'm 95% the way there, and I did it all by my special self! I'm just asking for help to get over the finish line. And also I'll be damned if I'm gonna remove the strings and pickguard for the 40th time without actually knowing what I'm doing. I'm supposing that there may be some unwanted interaction with the wires grounded to the pots?

And just for your effort - here's something (hopefully) nice to look at!

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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Ok that photo sucked - I don't know how to turn my flash off. It looks way better in person (or in guitar??)

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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

The 1st thing is how you connected the pots. It sounds like you're trying to do a passive mixer, which is difficult to impossible. So you MUST do the so-called "50's" wiring on the pots, or ALL the pots will be masters. In other words, the pickup output goes to the middle lug of the pot and the "top" lug becomes the output wire. Did you do that?
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

concentric pot.gif

Is this what you mean? That's what I did.

LPs have a VTVT setup, and that works. The only practical difference is an extra VT, right? Another I might want to mention is that where it says ground, I've soldered that wire to the bottom of the same pot, and then to the cluster, is that bad?
 
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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

So in other words, I can't have a three-way blending. One volume knob at a time is all one jack can handle, and the only way to achieve what I'm trying to do would be to have three jackholes, and even then, find some convoluted way of isolating the leads from each other - like playing through three amps. To put it loosely?
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Active electronics will help you out here, but I don't know exactly what on the market will best suit your needs.
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

I mean, it works as a guitar, and each combination of pickups and knob settings has it's own sound. It might not be doing exactly what I was aiming for, but it still sounds good and has many different tonal options. It's also entirely impractical to switch between them on the fly, but that's okay because my performing is very much bedroom-centric at the moment.
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

I have actually experimented with putting a mini preamp in it (an LM386 or something?) when I was trying to mix an active middle pickup with two passives - which i thought were active but weren't but i'd already wired them all up to 25k pots and I had this chip lying around so I gave that a shot instead of replacing the pots because I thought it would be less effort. That came with a whole host of other issues that would be another thread in itself. I gave up on that plan and just stuck all 500ks in it and all passive. Do you think it would be worth revisiting? If someone knows how to hook it up to the current setup. I've heard of Rubys in combo with them, but I have no idea what that is.

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One of these bad boys


I'm so sorry that I just said "bad boys".
 
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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Would I be closer to my aim with 1 volume and 3 tones? That's boring though :( nobody likes tone knobs. Maybe if I use an actual stereo lead I could have at least 2 separate volumes? There are also dual-ring jackholes on the market, but I'm not sure that would make a difference as both hot wires would still end up connected through the jack. Come to think of it the stereo lead idea wouldn't work for the same reason. Unless I re-wire my amp to support it.
 
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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

If you wired it like you show in post #4, then turning down one volume should not affect the other pickups. It's the hot output of the pup that's connected to the wiper, which is what goes to ground. The "output" wire, that connects all three pots, simply sees the parallel load of three pots. But it should work. Albeit, with quite a load on the pickups tonal character.
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Just playing devil's advocate here, but is there a reason you want an on/off switch for each pickup AND a volume/tone for each pickup? I've had a small handful of guitars with on/off switches for the pickups. It's far and away the worst way to control pickups.

Consider going with a 5-way plus a mini-toggle that adds the neck or bridge pickup. That gives you all the options you can get with the 3 on/offs, but it's only 2 switches to deal with, and when you realize that the neck/bridge and all 3 tones that the switch adds are borderline useless, you can quit using the mini-switch and just have a 5-way. There's a reason that 3 and 5 way switches (blade or toggle) are what's on 99.9% of guitars.
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Just playing devil's advocate here, but is there a reason you want an on/off switch for each pickup AND a volume/tone for each pickup? I've had a small handful of guitars with on/off switches for the pickups. It's far and away the worst way to control pickups.

Consider going with a 5-way plus a mini-toggle that adds the neck or bridge pickup. That gives you all the options you can get with the 3 on/offs, but it's only 2 switches to deal with, and when you realize that the neck/bridge and all 3 tones that the switch adds are borderline useless, you can quit using the mini-switch and just have a 5-way. There's a reason that 3 and 5 way switches (blade or toggle) are what's on 99.9% of guitars.

No, you're absolutely right. I've found that out the hard way. But I wouldn't have known unless I'd tried. I can only learn by rote, I figured that when I tried attending university lectures. It was never intended to be a gigging guitar and it IS absurdly impractical. The only 'combinations' you need are bridge+middle and middle+neck. On the plus side I know about 500% more about wiring than I did when I started. Next time I try to do something 'clever' I think I'll wire a delay pedal into a body.
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Gotcha. If you notice, it took me multiple guitars before I wrote off that setup.
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Gotcha. If you notice, it took me multiple guitars before I wrote off that setup.

Hopefully, we make these mistakes so that others don't have to. We only succeeded in inventing the parachute thanks to the brave endeavours of those who tragically failed.
 
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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

I say ditch the on/offs and go with a 3-way switch. VTVTVT is great, but do you really need all seven pickup combos, complete with the annoying movements it takes to get them?

Pesonally, VTTT would be my ideal Strat setup...but there's just no way to get a good looking four knob setup on a Strat. The best looking I have come up with is putting the volume knob out on the horn like a Gretsch, and it still looks weird, and requires a lot of wire length.
 
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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

If you are trying to do all stacked knobs - I found out that the front stacked knob really gets in the way of palm-muting the high strings - which is why I took off the top knob. I might bite the bullet and put in the selector, but to keep myself happy, go with VTT and a Band-Control Unit. Three tones would be nice though, as each of the pickups are "poles" apart tonally (Schaller Hot Stuff - MIM Fender - medium output DiMarzio) On that note - can a BCU be wired to more than one pickup?
 
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Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

And on that "DiMarzio" btw - I e-mailed them to see if they could identify it and they said that given it didn't have "DiMarzio" stamped on it - it's probably not a DiMarzio. I bought it about 15 years ago off a guy in school, and never used it until now. I thought I remembered him saying it was an EMG, but it's not active, and the wiring colours match DiMarzios, and it came in a DiMarzio box. His Dad's a luthier, so my next best guess is that it's a stock pickup from a nice guitar (it sounds really good at least). Do all DiMarzios ever made come with the name stamped on them?
 
Re: 3x individual switches with 3x stacked pots. VTVTVT

Hey Franken. Where did you find that little LM386 board? That's kinda cool.
 
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