400k Pots

Mr. B

New member
I wish someone made 400k pots for volume/tone. I have 2 guitars that are too bright with 500k's and I have to keep the tone knob rolled back all the time. Changing it to 300k changes the sound of the humbuckers too far, especially the neck. Right now I have the lowest value 500k's I could find, out of the seven or so I had on hand. A 400k would be perfect, but nothing like that exists.... does it?
 
Re: 400k Pots

You can modify pots with resistors to change the effective resistance. A 2 mega-ohm resistor across the 500K volume pot would get you close.
 
Re: 400k Pots

No. They are both 1 volume / 1 tone guitars. I've tried the resistor trick, but it doesn't work exactly the same.
 
Re: 400k Pots

I wish someone made 400k pots for volume/tone. I have 2 guitars that are too bright with 500k's and I have to keep the tone knob rolled back all the time. Changing it to 300k changes the sound of the humbuckers too far, especially the neck. Right now I have the lowest value 500k's I could find, out of the seven or so I had on hand. A 400k would be perfect, but nothing like that exists.... does it?

Doesnt work that way. Wide open tone on 250, 300, 500, and 1 meg will sound IDENTICAL, barring crappy defective pots.

REASON: "tone 10" is actually "resistor set to zero". And you can ALWAYS dial in a lesser value of resistance on a higher value pot, so you CAN get the equivalent "full = tone 0" resistance 250, 300, 400 etc out of 500/1000

PS if its difficult to find the value, buy linear pots
 
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Re: 400k Pots

No. They are both 1 volume / 1 tone guitars. I've tried the resistor trick, but it doesn't work exactly the same.

I'm not a fan of 1 vol-1 tone guitars, but I do have a couple. I make both pots volume controls. If the control cavity's big enough, I'll drill a hole for another pot. That way you can give the neck one 500K vol, and the bridge one 250K vol and a 500K tone.
 
Re: 400k Pots

Doesnt work that way. Wide open tone on 250, 300, 500, and 1 meg will sound IDENTICAL, barring crappy defective pots.

REASON: "tone 10" is actually "resistor set to zero". And you can ALWAYS dial in a lesser value of resistance on a higher value pot, so you CAN get the equivalent "full = tone 0" resistance 250, 300, 400 etc out of 500/1000

PS if its difficult to find the value, buy linear pots
There is still some signal sent to ground on the 'tone at 10' setting. Try disconnecting the tone circuit or putting in a no load tone pot, you'll soon see the difference. This is one of the reasons why there is actually a subtle difference with cap types and values even on 10.
 
Re: 400k Pots

There is still some signal sent to ground on the 'tone at 10' setting. Try disconnecting the tone circuit or putting in a no load tone pot, you'll soon see the difference. This is one of the reasons why there is actually a subtle difference with cap types and values even on 10.

+1

I've heard the difference going from 250K to 300K-ish (250K + 47K on the switch) on the tone. Trying to balance the tone on Strat combo positions.
 
Re: 400k Pots

I'm a fan of the 500K volume and 250K tone combo.

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Re: 400k Pots

Doesnt work that way. Wide open tone on 250, 300, 500, and 1 meg will sound IDENTICAL, barring crappy defective pots.

REASON: "tone 10" is actually "resistor set to zero". And you can ALWAYS dial in a lesser value of resistance on a higher value pot, so you CAN get the equivalent "full = tone 0" resistance 250, 300, 400 etc out of 500/1000

Um, no and no. A tone setting of "10" puts the pot at maximum resistance, thereby doing its best to prevent the high frequencies taking the path through the pot and cap to ground and keeping them in the signal chain. A guitarist saying they're running "wide open" will typically mean volume and tone all set to maximum.

Given this fact, the pot's value does in fact make a huge difference. The average impedance of the input to the amplifier head is 1MΩ, so you are in fact losing quite a bit of the guitar's native high end through the tone circuit as the easiest path. At 250K that loss is 80%, and at 1MΩ, the highest-value resistor I've seen used in guitar wiring, the high-end loss only shrinks to 50%. So if you think a guitar is bright with 500K pots, imagine what it'd sound like if you used a pot that actually kept a majority of the high frequency signal.

You are right that you can always set a higher-value pot to a lower resistance. However, with audio tapers that sweet spot can be hard to find, and your suggestion of linear tapers is disingenuous; if you use them, you lose the tone all at once on the bottom half of the pot's values instead of more gradually through the entire available range, because the human ear perceives volume logarithmically; what we hear as twice as loud requires ten times the power. The difference between 500k and 400k is less than 1dB.
 
Re: 400k Pots

Um, no and no. A tone setting of "10" puts the pot at maximum resistance, thereby doing its best to prevent the high frequencies taking the path through the pot and cap to ground and keeping them in the signal chain. A guitarist saying they're running "wide open" will typically mean volume and tone all set to maximum.

Given this fact, the pot's value does in fact make a huge difference. The average impedance of the input to the amplifier head is 1MΩ, so you are in fact losing quite a bit of the guitar's native high end through the tone circuit as the easiest path. At 250K that loss is 80%, and at 1MΩ, the highest-value resistor I've seen used in guitar wiring, the high-end loss only shrinks to 50%. So if you think a guitar is bright with 500K pots, imagine what it'd sound like if you used a pot that actually kept a majority of the high frequency signal.

You are right that you can always set a higher-value pot to a lower resistance. However, with audio tapers that sweet spot can be hard to find, and your suggestion of linear tapers is disingenuous; if you use them, you lose the tone all at once on the bottom half of the pot's values instead of more gradually through the entire available range, because the human ear perceives volume logarithmically; what we hear as twice as loud requires ten times the power. The difference between 500k and 400k is less than 1dB.

Thanks for beating me to it. Adieu is good for posting something that is the opposite of the truth and acting as an authority.
 
Re: 400k Pots

Maybe the answer is new pickups...

No... I like the pickups. I've been through dozens and these are the ones I've settled on. They sound great with the tone rolled off about 1/3 of the way. I've tried 250k in both the volume and tone roll. I also tried it with 300k volume and 500k tone, and that was pretty close, but I didn't like the bridge quite as well with the 300k pot. It changed the EQ of the pickup too much. I still think a 400k value might be perfect. Maybe I will luck into a 500k pot that is WAY out of spec. I had a 250k recently that read 170k.
 
Re: 400k Pots

Maybe call Mojotone or someone and see what they can do for you. IIRC I've got some 500k pots that read in the 430k range. Just a thought. :)
 
Re: 400k Pots

Maybe call Mojotone or someone and see what they can do for you. IIRC I've got some 500k pots that read in the 430k range. Just a thought. :)

Good point. dug up some old japanese made pots at work the other day and the 500's got as low as 427k
 
I wish someone made 400k pots for volume/tone. I have 2 guitars that are too bright with 500k's and I have to keep the tone knob rolled back all the time. Changing it to 300k changes the sound of the humbuckers too far, especially the neck. Right now I have the lowest value 500k's I could find, out of the seven or so I had on hand. A 400k would be perfect, but nothing like that exists.... does it?
I found a pair on Ebay for $100. That is ridiculous. The volume pot DC resistance changes the top end rolloff as you have discovered. I have 2 guitars with full size JBs in the bridge and I use 500 K volumes. but I am using the single coil Seymour Hot Stack Bridge in the neck. I found the top end was too high and airy. So I am using a 1.5Meg shunt resistor on the pickup to ground. So when I only play the neck pickup it sees 375K DC resistance. That is more to my liking. Played with the shunt resistor value to get the top end the way you like it. I prefer a 500k Tone on all my guitars so that I have full range ability. It is my opinion that the pickup top end is most affected by the DC resistance it sees. The tone section having a capacitor doesn't affect the DC value. Note: I have another strat with with the single size in all 3 positions. I was using the STK-6S in the bridge and Hot Stack Bridge in the neck. Using a 465K volume pot that I happen to have. The S6 is great but I am having the Custom Shop wind me a S6 with a little more mids and output. I use the shunt resistors on the neck and middle pickups as discussed above. Rock on, Ronnie V.
Edited - I should have answered as freefrog did below, by putting a 2K shunt resistor across the 500K volume will result in 400K. Also I was just playing with my mod stated above. It turns out the best tone I got from the Hot Stack Bridge in the neck is to put 500K shunt on the pickup hot so that it is in parallel with my 465K volume, this gets me 240K DC resistance seen by the Hot Stack Bridge in the neck. That is how you can accomplish mixing pickups that require different volume resistances. Cheers!
 
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So I am using a 1.5K shunt resistor on the pickup to ground. So when I only play the neck pickup it sees 375K DC resistance.
Hello, welcome onbard and thx for your testimonial. In the sentence above, I guess you meant 1.5M? Because a 1.5k would give a pot value of 1.495k.

To change a 500k pot in a 400k one, it would require a 2M resistor.

Handy calculators can be found online BTW. Here is an example among others:


FWIW. HTH. :-)
 
I wish someone made 400k pots for volume/tone. I have 2 guitars that are too bright with 500k's and I have to keep the tone knob rolled back all the time. Changing it to 300k changes the sound of the humbuckers too far, especially the neck. Right now I have the lowest value 500k's I could find, out of the seven or so I had on hand. A 400k would be perfect, but nothing like that exists.... does it?
Maybe use one 500k and one 300k?
 
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