50s strat with major hum issues :(

[gp5384]

I need some help. I have a 50s reissue strat with hotrails in the bridge, stock in the middle, and dimarzio heavy blues in the neck. I've driven hundreds of miles back and forth to get it fixed by a luthier that couldn't figure it out. The guitar worked, however there was now an ungodly HUM to it. Since then I've tried pulling schematics from

Fender:
http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdfs/50SSTRAT/SD0131002BPg2.pdf

black and white, didn't help much with color wiring :lame: nor did it cover all 5 wires

Seymour
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/3singlecoils_1vol_2tones.html

wow. I know i'm a rookie with guitar electronics but they really only refer to the white and black wire!! :dammit:

Dimarzio
http://www.dimarzio.com/media/diagrams/A.pdf

This was the best of the 3 but not easy to follow either :dunno:

I've tried buying copper insulation from ebay to no avail :guilty:

Here is what the work that the tech did, looks like

http://www.kakostree.com/strat.jpg

Hopefully I just need a proper (or dummy proof rather) schematic. If someone knows where i can get one I'd really appreciate it. I hate that the different pickup manufacturers don't adhere to a standard. But being that a tech of 20 years couldn't figure it out perhaps it's an unusual deal. He claims to have inserted new pots, selector switch etc. I also wish the online schematics were colorized, and had all 5 wires shown (what a novel idea)

I theorized it was a ground issue because when i put my thumb on the metal of the input, the hum goes away :dunno:

Since then I've taken the guitar apart and just experiemented, pickup by pickup. I just can't get it to work and I am sooo frustrated :guilty: I hope someone out there can help. Thanks in advance

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

So hard to trouble shoot without the guitar in front of me.

There's just so many things that could be wrong or not done properly.

And you've got pickups from three differant manufacturers in there: Fender, Duncan and Dimarzio!

I suspect that what's ground to one manufacturer is hot to the other.

Dimarzio might use a differant color code than Duncan...try to get that figured out and you might be able to figure out your problem.

All three pickups should work well together once you determine which wires should be grounded and which should be hot and attached to your 5 way switch.

My guess is that you have some hot and ground wires reversed maybe due to a differant color code from the three manufacturers.

That's just a guess though...

 

[sufferinrewind]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Duncan pickups and DiMarzio pickups will work fine together, may sound weird together because they're voiced differently, but that's all.

However, there is a problem with Duncan pickups and Fender pickups being in the same guitar.

Are Seymour Duncan and Fender single coil pickups compatible?

Yes they can be but Seymour Duncan and Fender pickups are magnetically opposite. Many players find that after installing a Seymour Duncan bridge single coil into a Strat they must switch the Fender mid and neck position pick ups both in the pick guard and in the wiring at the switch to keep the #2 and #4 positions noise canceling. There are exceptions to this rule though because Fender has changed their magnetic orientation several times in the last four decades. Generally with single coil pick ups it's easier to stick with one manufacturer to avoid the trouble of trying to figure out how to get all the pickups properly phased both electrically and magnetically.

This could be your problem. If the Fender pups won't work properly with the Duncan pups, they won't work right with the DMZ pups, either.

 

[david kornblatt]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

HERES WHaT YOU DO go to GUITAR NUTS.COM AND SHEILD YOUR GUITAR WITH STAR GROUNDING...THAN YOU BY A SET OF 57/62 PICKUPS AND INSTALL THEM THAN YOU INSTALL THE CALLAHAM BRIDGE AND INSTALL AN OAKS GRINGSBYSUPPER SWITCH AND PUT ONE OF YOUR TONE CONTROLLS ON THE BRIDGE PICKUP BUT ALSO INSTALL A BASEPLATE ON THE BRIDGE PICKUP

 

[david kornblatt]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

HERES WHaT YOU DO go to GUITAR NUTS.COM AND SHEILD YOUR GUITAR WITH STAR GROUNDING...THAN YOU BY A SET OF 57/62 PICKUPS AND INSTALL THEM THAN YOU INSTALL THE CALLAHAM BRIDGE AND INSTALL AN OAKS GRINGSBYSUPPER SWITCH AND PUT ONE OF YOUR TONE CONTROLLS ON THE BRIDGE PICKUP BUT ALSO INSTALL A BASEPLATE ON THE BRIDGE PICKUP

ALSO READ EVERYTHING YOU CAN BY DAN ERLEWHINE ON HOW TO MAKE A STRAT GREAT

 

[DracoAran]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Looking at that picture, I'd say murder your "tech".

Change that switch and pots, and the jack while at it.

Take that pickguard shielding off, and do it again with one solid sheet of aluminum foil (glue it to the pickguard, and then cut the shape and holes with an exacto knife). It should look a lot smoother after.

Make sure that the shielding (cavity AND pickguard) is grounded. As a matter of fact, as I look closer, I'd say shield the cavity (unless it's shield painted and I'm not seeing it).

Did I mention changing that switch?. Do it. And the pots.

Get some quality wire, and resolder all the main ground and hot connections, not just the pickups.
Also, make sure hot and negative connections stay ISOLATED from each other. Even at the jack, or underneath the pickups and their wire starting points. Tape is your friend.
I even see that your black and white wires on the Dimarzio might be touching the pickguard shield. Tape them.

Artie should come in here any minute to hook you up with an schematic that incoporates the proper color coding for EACH pickup. I'd do one with a 5 way switch that auto splits the duncan and the dimarzio in positions 4 and 2.
The tricky part is gonna be to get hum cancel in those 2 positions.
To save yourself a few tries, take that middle single and put it face to face with the Hot Rails. Figure out which of the 2 rails ATTRACTS the pole pieces in the single coil.
That'll tell you which coil (inner or outer) needs to be turned off in positions 2 and 4.

But, here's the bad news: you might still be out of phase, even though you have the right polarities going.

I'd get a Duncan single for the middle, a regular wound one. It would make things so much easier, and toneful


Have some patience bro. There is a vast amount of knowledge in these boards. You'll have a bitching noiseless setup in no time.

 

[bert123]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Looking at the picture I can't tell if you have a ground wire running to the tremelo claw, either. I was surprised to see mini-pots in your oicture.
I've used this shielding article as a guide for shielding two strats.

Look at Stew-Mac shielding supplies for copper shielding tape.

 

[gp5384]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Thanks everyone for your ideas and suggestions! What a cool community of musicians! :bigok:

First off one thing i should point out is, although it was a nasty looking soldier job when i did it, i did have this setup working fine. it only recently went out after a few years of solid performance. i THEN took it to a tech, who got it to work, but with a nasty hum. The tech proved to be the biggest a-hole i've ever dealt with in all my life (in a cust serv field) so he kind of lost all credibility w/me. I did confirm with him, that he ONLY consulted Fender schematics. He doesn't even have after market schematics in his shop. Inexcuseable for someone that does that for a living... ESP for hotrails. it's the most popular replacement pickup for the most popular guitar in history. no excuse for a so called professional to not have that pinned to the wall

LEW GUITAR: I hear ya buddy. Very hard to trouble shoot this by pics/description. And you're right about different wires being ground. i forget which one but i know for a fact dimarzio considers one wire ground that seymour doesn't (i think green is ground for them, arrrg!!). if the computer industry ran like the pickup industry we'd all be in serious trouble

SUFFER IN REWIND: Thanks for the great point. However i should point out while it was working in the past, i didn't even have the middle (fender) pup hooked up since i don't use it. Also while i was trouble shooting i unhooked all pickups during my experiements to take one after market pup at a time to simplify things. No matter what i did, and no matter what schematics i followed, i could not get the pickups to work properly on their respective switch positions (dimarzio for instance i could get to work on 4 of the 5 switch positions but no more/no less! Also i should point out, that years past, i bought this pickguard off ebay as a "loaded pickguard" complete with el cheapo pickups, which i promptly threw out in leu of these aftermarkets/fender middle.

:

 

[gp5384]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Drats it made me break the reply up in two bits. here's the continuation:

DRACOARAN: "Looking at that picture, I'd say murder your "tech"." AMEN BROTHER!!! Biggest douchebag ever.

"Change that switch and pots, and the jack while at it" The "tech" already did that. Even still, I tend to agree. I can't trust he did it properly (not that i could do better sadly)

"Take that pickguard shielding off, and do it again with one solid sheet of aluminum foil (glue it to the pickguard, and then cut the shape and holes with an exacto knife). It should look a lot smoother after." Seriously? I just bought that copper! I read that IF u use foil, u should only use super heavy duty foil with an adhesive, never regular. Here is the exact seller i bought the copper from.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7397083194&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT&rd=1 Sounds good right?

"Artie should come in here any minute to hook you up with an schematic that incoporates the proper color coding for EACH pickup. I'd do one with a 5 way switch that auto splits the duncan and the dimarzio in positions 4 and 2."

you're speaking another language, lol (sorry. though i've been playing a few decades, i'm a total moron in guitar electronics). auto splits? and what is considered position one by the way? all the way up (bridge position)?

"I'd get a Duncan single for the middle, a regular wound one. It would make things so much easier, and toneful "

I may do that, or just unhook the middle. for a pup i never use, if it's causing trouble i'd just as soon not have it hooked up.
I'm also not closed to getting a different neck pickup. even a seymour to match. i'm not married to the dimarzio deep blues. in fact it's not even recommended for the neck position, tho u can use it. i like more of a slash tone for the neck pup which it does not give
Anxiously awaiting the schematic you spoke of. I will try some more but i have a feeling i'm either going to dig deeper to find a reputable luthier, or just get ALL new parts and start from scratch. i yi yi. this makes me want to get a variax

BERT123: "Looking at the picture I can't tell if you have a ground wire running to the tremelo claw, either. I was surprised to see mini-pots in your oicture."

No sir, no ground wire to the trem claw. is that mandatory? This tech has nothing soldiered to the trem claw

Thanks for the link! Been having trouble finding a good parts resource!!


Again, thanks everyone. If anyone has schematics for my situation that'd be great. I am going to try just about everything mentioned here. I can't wait until I become good at this. I guess now's a good time to learn :afro:

 

[bert123]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Here is a link for a copper pickguard shield on eBay
Ebay Strat Copper Pickguard Shield

Is the bridge ground mandatory? Someone else will need to answer this however all of my guitars have a ground connection to the strings. On a non-hardtail strat this is usually a ground wire to the trem claw. By having the strings attached to ground you act as a shield when you are touching the strings.

 

[ColdHit]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Dimarzio: RED is Hot. Black/White together and taped. Green to ground.
Seymour: BLACK is Hot. Red/White together and taped. Green to ground.
Fender: WHITE HOT. BLACK Ground. You have White and Red wires. Don't know which pickup this is.

From here it looks to me you have the Seymour wired backward with the black going to ground?

You also have the DiMarzio green wire connected to the switch? This wire should be ground.

You should also connect a ground wire from volume pot to the tremolo claw as other mentioned.

The Fender diagram you linked is correct, except you need to change the position of those switch lugs so that you can use the one you have. Let me see if I can find a diagram for that.

Try this link. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electro...Megaswitches/Instructions/I-3528.html#details

 

[DracoAran]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Your tech really is a hack if he replaced your electronics with the cheapest import pots and switch he could find.

As far as the shielding, I recommend copper with conductive adhesive for the cavity. For the pickguard itself, you could use a single sheet of copper adhesive too, but at $6 bucks each, you're throwing your money away. Just use aluminum foil and glue it to the pickguard.

The link that Bert provided is the standard for strat shielding. That tutorial works every time.

I would suggest using all 3 pickups. You get the best quack by combining the middle single with either of the other 2.

I'm gonna see if I can make an schematic real quick later tonight.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Here is what the work that the tech did, looks like

http://www.kakostree.com/strat.jpg

Ow!

Some people have no standards...

The best way to screen a scratchplate is to use 3m photomount spray adhesiveand Alcan foil. That's ordinary cooking foil for anyone outside the UK.

Avoid the bittiness of separate panels of adhesive foil, it's more likely to make it worse.

A lot of people seem to think that you only need to screen the scratchplate, but you actually need to go round the whole control cavity and enclose the circuitry in a grounded conductive box.

I've just read through the thread and realised that i've duplicated a lot of DracoAran's good advice.

Personally though, I'd use graphite paint for the cavity, you get better continuity and a problem with foil is that it isn't very adhesive over a long period; i've seen the adhesive break down then the foil comes off and causes shorts...

Problem is I make my own up (my attic houses about a ton of SriLankan graphite:nervous so i don't know where you can buy it

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Sorry, but that wiring is so scheit i had to look at it again to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me.

Is that guy actually charging money for that kind of work?

 

[ColdHit]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Sorry, but that wiring is so scheit i had to look at it again to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me.

Is that guy actually charging money for that kind of work?

I'm actually saving that picture as things "you shouldn't do". It really looks bad in there.

 

[gp5384]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Sorry for the delay. Had a lovely C drive crash I just recovered from. I needed that like a hole in the head.

i want to reply to everyone's thoughts but i'll start with a bottom liner first of where i currently stand.

i decided at the very least i owe it to my baby to get new guts (pots, switch, etc). right now it's pure trash. I'm currently bidding on a buddy guy fully loaded pickguard on ebay. i should win it, as the auction is near over with no other bids. the components look a higher quality than mine.

I went to the seymour site to listen to all single coil sized pickups. Man it is hard to tell what i want with the licks that guy is playing. I'd say the exact neck pup sound I want could be described pretty well as the solo for Pink Floyd's comfortably numb. Just love that tone. I am thinking either a duckbucker or vintage rails would fit that though it's hard to tell. I also am seeing a fully loaded pickguard for sale by EMG that has David Gilmour's exact configuration. 300 bucks tho ( http://www.gtrheaven.com/emg_strat.htm ) Does anyone have thoughts this? Of course I'd MUCH rather spend less and I know i don't HAVE to have the exact emg pickups to get a very similar neck pup sound. Would the duckbucker work just fine for this sound? Or make the investment in the loaded emg pickguard? Also, with these active pickups. How do you change the 9V? by taking the pickguard off? I hope not.

 

[gp5384]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

bert123: thanks for the copper pickguard link. there are no more and they seem to be sold out. I was going to buy. i emailed the seller on if he will sell more soon. not only do i love the concept but the copper color will probably go nice w/the sunburst! awesome haven't heard back though and i did already purchase online today, that shielding paint! another great recommendation by you guys. man that's pretty $$$ tho. like 30 bucks for a 1/2 pint, but the ease and coverage of such shielding is too appealing for me.

coldhit: Man that was truly helpful. Spelling out what’s hot/ground in plain English. Damn that tech has been doing this for 20 years FOR A LIVING. I can see now how incompetent he truly is. Just makes me madder that he had such an attitude on top of such piss-poor work. I think I’m going to mail him a link to this thread so he can see what people think of his “work". Though people like him always have a transparent response. Deny responsibility, try to blame shift, etc etc.

i posted your legend: http://www.kakostree.com/stratwiring.htm i will keep it up indefinitely so feel free to pass it out if u want

 

[gp5384]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

From here it looks to me you have the Seymour wired backward with the black going to ground?

You also have the DiMarzio green wire connected to the switch? This wire should be ground.

You should also connect a ground wire from volume pot to the tremolo claw as other mentioned.

Yeah, that's how the "tech" had my stuff wired. He did all of that except for the copper shielding. i did that (poorly as u can see) due to his recommendation.

 

[gp5384]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Your tech really is a hack if he replaced your electronics with the cheapest import pots and switch he could find.

As far as the shielding, I recommend copper with conductive adhesive for the cavity. For the pickguard itself, you could use a single sheet of copper adhesive too, but at $6 bucks each, you're throwing your money away. Just use aluminum foil and glue it to the pickguard.

The link that Bert provided is the standard for strat shielding. That tutorial works every time.

I would suggest using all 3 pickups. You get the best quack by combining the middle single with either of the other 2.

I'm gonna see if I can make an schematic real quick later tonight.

thanks for the tips. i did get the shielding paint! i know u said foil is cheaper but i just love the idea of the ease/coverage of it. and that quack tip will definitely be used. I miss the quack dearly

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: 50s strat with major hum issues

Fender: WHITE HOT. BLACK Ground. You have White and Red wires. Don't know which pickup this is.

On Fender middle single coils, the wires are often differenty colored to indicate that the pickup is RWRP.