59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I tried my hardest to like 59 Bassmans....both a 90's RI like yours and several years later, a Bassman LTD. I tried the different rectifiers, good tubes, everything short of changing the speakers. In the end, I just realized I can't cope with those hard mids, farty bottom, and ear punching highs. I'm a blues and blues rock player, and even still, the amp isn't for me. I think I'm done with 10" speakers too, quite frankly.

If you aren't blown away by the tone, you could spend money chasing your tail.
Or, just sell it and buy something else with the money.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I tried my hardest to like 59 Bassmans....both a 90's RI like yours and several years later, a Bassman LTD. I tried the different rectifiers, good tubes, everything short of changing the speakers. In the end, I just realized I can't cope with those hard mids, farty bottom, and ear punching highs. I'm a blues and blues rock player, and even still, the amp isn't for me. I think I'm done with 10" speakers too, quite frankly.

If you aren't blown away by the tone, you could spend money chasing your tail.
Or, just sell it and buy something else with the money.

Hmm...interesting take on Bassmans.

My biggest issue with tweed Bassman amps is the volume...I mean as nice as they are the new Fenders simply can't touch 50's tweed Bassman amps but even still I could gig with a reissue and be quite happy...if I could turn it up!

If you OP is worried about the amp in general maybe go to a store and try a higher end Bassman copy that already has better tubes and maybe even nice speakers...if you dig that then try working with your reissue if you are still unhappy then maybe move the Bassman on to a new home and try again.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

If it comes down to the treble being too harsh, I really think JJ ECC83s will be the solution as mentioned throughout this thread. Those are the darkest tubes I've heard and I used to use them to tame the high end in a Crate V32 Palomino amp. I know JJs are pretty dull sounding preamp tubes, but in this instance that might be what's really needed.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I tried my hardest to like 59 Bassmans....both a 90's RI like yours and several years later, a Bassman LTD. I tried the different rectifiers, good tubes, everything short of changing the speakers. In the end, I just realized I can't cope with those hard mids, farty bottom, and ear punching highs. I'm a blues and blues rock player, and even still, the amp isn't for me. I think I'm done with 10" speakers too, quite frankly.

If you aren't blown away by the tone, you could spend money chasing your tail.
Or, just sell it and buy something else with the money.

I agree with Joe. I've had a few tweed Bassmans over the years, including a Victoria and even a couple from the 50's, and I always end up selling them. They are a bass amp after all, so they have a ton of bass. But also a lot of glassy sounding treble and as Joe says: hard mids.

I've tried NOS RCA tubes, different speakers, a full set of real 50's Jensen P10R's in the Victoria, some custom made Weber 10's, and even smaller cathode capacitors in the preamp to reduce the bass.

Just couldn't fall in love and stay in love with the tone.

I do like 10" speakers though!
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I bet that sounds great!! I don't know if I want to spend that much in mods though. Haha

As I remember it was not all that pricey. This was about 1998 and I the board was about $180 and I wired it myself. I had the tubes around. Of course if you have to pay a tech to do it, that's where it would really rack up some $$.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I tried my hardest to like 59 Bassmans....both a 90's RI like yours and several years later, a Bassman LTD. I tried the different rectifiers, good tubes, everything short of changing the speakers. In the end, I just realized I can't cope with those hard mids, farty bottom, and ear punching highs. I'm a blues and blues rock player, and even still, the amp isn't for me. I think I'm done with 10" speakers too, quite frankly.

If you aren't blown away by the tone, you could spend money chasing your tail.
Or, just sell it and buy something else with the money.
Well now I'm starting to second guess if I should have anything done to the amp or just sell it...
Hmm...interesting take on Bassmans.

My biggest issue with tweed Bassman amps is the volume...I mean as nice as they are the new Fenders simply can't touch 50's tweed Bassman amps but even still I could gig with a reissue and be quite happy...if I could turn it up!

If you OP is worried about the amp in general maybe go to a store and try a higher end Bassman copy that already has better tubes and maybe even nice speakers...if you dig that then try working with your reissue if you are still unhappy then maybe move the Bassman on to a new home and try again.
I would, but I haven't been able to find any Bassman Reissue (besides the used one that I bought) in any of the shops around here.
If it comes down to the treble being too harsh, I really think JJ ECC83s will be the solution as mentioned throughout this thread. Those are the darkest tubes I've heard and I used to use them to tame the high end in a Crate V32 Palomino amp. I know JJs are pretty dull sounding preamp tubes, but in this instance that might be what's really needed.
Yeah, I might try those. I don't know now whether spend some money and try different tube, or just sell it or trade it for something else.... I might call my tech and see what he thinks.
I agree with Joe. I've had a few tweed Bassmans over the years, including a Victoria and even a couple from the 50's, and I always end up selling them. They are a bass amp after all, so they have a ton of bass. But also a lot of glassy sounding treble and as Joe says: hard mids.

I've tried NOS RCA tubes, different speakers, a full set of real 50's Jensen P10R's in the Victoria, some custom made Weber 10's, and even smaller cathode capacitors in the preamp to reduce the bass.

Just couldn't fall in love and stay in love with the tone.

I do like 10" speakers though!
Hmmmm..... I don't know what to do.
As I remember it was not all that pricey. This was about 1998 and I the board was about $180 and I wired it myself. I had the tubes around. Of course if you have to pay a tech to do it, that's where it would really rack up some $$.

Oh alright. Yeah, I probably wouldn't want to do it myself, so I would have a tech do it. Which that could get expensive.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Some good tubes are always a good thing...try the new tubes then decide.

If you like it then you;re good, if you;'re still unhappy just unload the amp.

Putting big dollars into the amp isn't going to change the fact that it's still a Bassman...if you are unhappy with that core tone then tweaking that it still going to yield a tone you do not care for.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

UPDATE:

I went ahead and ordered just a couple tubes to try out in the amp and they just came in yesterday. I didn't know if I wanted to sink a while set of tubes into the amp yet, if I wasn't sure that I was going to keep it or not. So I put in a JJ 5AR4 tube rectifier, in place of the ss rectifier, and I put in an EHX 12AY7 in the V1 slot.

So far I am extremely happy with the results! The amp is soooo much warmer and smoother now and all of the harsh highs and upper mids that I was having with drive pedals are gone. I even like the stock speakers after the tube swap.

I think the amp is going to be a keeper now, and I am going to go ahead and replace the rest of the stock tubes with some better quality ones.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

There's no problem ordering extra tubes. They're always great to have around, and, as you noticed, they are a relatively cheap way to tweak your tone. I find ElectroHarmonix to be sort of upper-middle-level. They're good, but they're not great at what they do. I don't have any experience with 12AY7 tubes, but if you want to talk about current production 12AX7s, I know a little bit more about that.

Hope you enjoy your new hobby. :D
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Good to hear you dialed it in better. I'll bet it would sound glorious running in stereo with your new Deluxe Reverb. Loud, but beautiful.
 
Yeah, Groove Tubes are about 90% rebranded Soveteks, which I feel are usually too bright for Fender amps. I still remember what a night & day difference retubing my former Deville made.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

There's no problem ordering extra tubes. They're always great to have around, and, as you noticed, they are a relatively cheap way to tweak your tone. I find ElectroHarmonix to be sort of upper-middle-level. They're good, but they're not great at what they do. I don't have any experience with 12AY7 tubes, but if you want to talk about current production 12AX7s, I know a little bit more about that.

Hope you enjoy your new hobby. :D
Thanks man! Yeah, I already had alot invested into the amp, so I just wanted to change out the tubes that I knew would make the most difference first, to see if I could get it close to might liking. I wasn't wanting to have it completely retubed if I wasn't going to keep it, then I would just be losing more money on it. Now that I know I am going to like it, I am going to retube the whole thing.

Yeah, I don't have much experience yet with other brands of tubes. I just got the EHX 12AY7 because I wanted to see if the lower gain tube would smooth it out like I was wanting. And someone recommended it for a good, cheap 12AY7. I figured its at least gotta be better than the stock fender 12AX7. Lol
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Good to hear you dialed it in better. I'll bet it would sound glorious running in stereo with your new Deluxe Reverb. Loud, but beautiful.
Thanks man! Me too :) And oh my, yes it does!! I've been running the two of them in stereo for the last couple of days, and I absolutely love it!
Yeah, Groove Tubes are about 90% rebranded Soveteks, which I feel are usually too bright for Fender amps. I still remember what a night & day difference retubing my former Deville made.
Yeah, I'm thinking about trying some Tung Sols or JJ's for the rest of the pre-amp and power tubes.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Sweet news man!
Good to hear that it behaves better now:)

Yeah, I am super happy that I am getting it to sound like I want. Before, it still sounded great on cleans and light gain but with any decent amount of gain it would just get harsh and fizzy. Now the couple of tubes swaps have fixed that, so I am really liking it! I think I still like the Deluxe Reverb a little bit more though. Lol :)
 
From my experience, JJ's are a darker sounding tube. Not in a bad way though. If you have an amp that is very bright sounding by nature, JJ's will help to tame it. That was my experience with the Deville - ridiculously bright until I put the JJ's in. Made the treble knob actually usable. Also they sound good when driven.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I have the LTD. I think it is a great amp ... loud! I would say the speakers need some time to loosen up. It seems to take a LONG time to do that with that amp.
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

From my experience, JJ's are a darker sounding tube. Not in a bad way though. If you have an amp that is very bright sounding by nature, JJ's will help to tame it. That was my experience with the Deville - ridiculously bright until I put the JJ's in. Made the treble knob actually usable. Also they sound good when driven.
Yeah, I am thinking about just putting a set of JJ's in the bassman and calling it good. I've been looking up tons of tubes and different brands. I've read so many mixed reviews about all of them that I am confused about which ones to get. Lol... I've also thought about trying a 5751 in place of the 12AY7 to see how it would sound.
I have the LTD. I think it is a great amp ... loud! I would say the speakers need some time to loosen up. It seems to take a LONG time to do that with that amp.

Yes, they are very loud! My Bassman in an early 90's reissue, so with the speakers being almost 20 years old, I would think that they would be broken in by now.... but you never know. Lol
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I am not sure whether you are still checking the thread, but I think a few points are worth considering. The first is that the Bassman has a very specific, bright tone. From you original post it sounds like you understand and are ok with that, and are concerned that it has moved from bright to harsh. Some of the people responding, however, are making suggestions which would basically alter the fundamental character of the amp. If you do not like the Bassman tone, fine, but there is no point in making a bunch of mods to try to make it sound like something that it is not. It would be better to simply find an amp whose tone you prefer.

Ok, with that said, now for the nitty gritty. With respect to the tubes, those who are telling you that the fender, factory tubes stink are dead on. Most new tubes are pretty crappy. There are some good boutiques tubes, but the best (power) tubes to my ear are the JJ's. Also, biasing can make a huge difference, and, as noted, there are biasing mods which can make this an easier task on this vintage circuit.

Preamp tubes are a totally different issue. I do not know why you would buy new preamp tubes while you can still get old american made tubes. Whether they are truly "NOS" which are rare and expensive, or just used (in which case their values are usually tested and identified), in general they are going to have a much finer tone (smoother, less harshness, richer overdrive) than any new preamp tube. As for the 12Ay7, that is a very low gain tube which will give you more headroom. You can use a 12At7 which on the gain spectrum lies between the ax7 and ay7. That makes a lot of sense for a guitar player looking fora a responsive blues/classic rock amp. Use the ay7 to keep it as clean as possible.

You can also find older american made power tubes. They are expensive, but awesome.

The tube rectifier, while not cheap, will fundamentally change the character of the amp and move it toward the more classic Bassman tone. The tube rectifier responds to drive and has tonal characteristics which are wholly unique. Google it for more specifics. As an alternative, Weber makes a solid state rectifier which makes the tonal characteristics of a tube rectifier. It will not necessarily resolve all of the brittle tone issues, but it will give you natural compression and a pumping, classic tone.

With respect to the speakers, it is again important to remember that old Fenders had a very bright tone. The speakers do wear in, but moving away from that brightness for a tweed amp is moving away from the fundamental tone of that style of amp. There are speaker alternatives which some people tonally prefer to to the Jensens (which are very unlike the old classic Jensens, starting with where they are built). Weber, again, makes killer alnico magnet speakers which sound like vintage speakers, in more than one price range. They also offer options to alter to tone of the speaker. Really, for the money I think they are the best speakers made today. Made in the USA, great options, great service, great price, great tone. How great - the new Fender custom shop totally hand made ERic Clapton amps are using Weber designed speakers! When and if that is a change you want to make, that is the way to go.

As a final note, the guitar choice can make a big difference. High output pickups, especially ceramic magnet pickups, are going to compound the original brightness of the circuit, and probably take things to a more brittle and sterile place. Alnico magnet pickups, which all vintage pickups used in various iterations, are going to retain more of a sweet ringing tone without seeming harsh. The difference in tone can be huge. Standard series fenders, for example, use (at least as of last time I checked) ceramic magnet pickups which do not come close to the tone of good alnico magnet pickups. You can also get a noise reducing peddle, such as that from Electro Harmonix, which will really tame any single coil noise and help the amp sound as good as possible.

Good luck!
 
Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Hey marosi, and welcome to the forum!

I've actually already resolved all of the issues that I was having. I put a full set of JJ's in (including tube rect.) and a JJ 5751 in the V1 slot. It sounds absolutely great now! I even like the stock speakers. Also, I only play with low output, alnico mag pickups. I don't like high output or ceramic mag pickups at all.
 
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