59 bridge in neck

[Inflames626]

Hey guys,
I tried the 59 neck model and, like a lot of people, I found it flubby and boxy. I'm definitely more of a Jazz guy.

That said, I tried a Gibson 57 in the neck, disliked it, tried a 57+ in the neck, and found it to be gold. Amazing what a slight increase in output and upper mids will do in the neck position.

That said, does the 59 bridge model improve upon the neck model in a similar way?

I have a Pearly Gates neck I want to try but haven't yet. I tried the PG bridge in the neck and found it amazing--the only flaw is it wouldn't clean up enough for that position.

Other folks have suggested the Demon in the neck.

I'm looking for something a little warmer than the Jazz but also brighter and snappier in the top end (very top end--around 5-7k) This PAF with a bright top is what I consider an EMG 60 to be--still one of my favorite pickups to this day.

Thanks.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

If you're looking for 'brighter and snappier in the top end' than a Jazz, and found the '59N to be 'flubby and boxy', the odds of a '59B acheiving that are about nil. A '59B is wound hotter and going to have less high end than a '59N. Demon is going to be hotter and warmer than that.

You're simultaneously wanting warmth & bright and snappy. Before we can help, you're going to have to make up your mind which direction you want to go: more treble or less treble.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

If you're looking for 'brighter and snappier in the top end' than a Jazz, and found the '59N to be 'flubby and boxy', the odds of a '59B acheiving that are about nil. A '59B is wound hotter and going to have less high end than a '59N. Demon is going to be hotter and warmer than that.

You're simultaneously wanting warmth & bright and snappy. Before we can help, you're going to have to make up your mind which direction you want to go: more treble or less treble.

I'm not convinced there's an either or there. More low end than a Jazz, but a brighter top end as well. Depending on where the lows are added, you can add in more warmth without losing articulation. Getting rid of 300-400 hz is a place to start, but pickups are rarely this precise.

Adding more output does kill highs, but in the 57+'s case the deadened highs are offset by where the mids are voiced. It may be darker than the 57 because it is hotter, but I perceive it to be brighter.

To my ear, an EMG 60 does this more lows/highs than a Jazz, but I've no reason to put that in a guitar when I can track a song with two separate guitars, one of them EMG 60 equipped. However finding a passive equivalent would be nice because even the 60 is not perfect.

And yes sir, as we have discussed before, I tend to not like what I have tried of Duncan's PAFs. Voiced all wrong for me. I'd rather have a more articulate pickup and then dial in whatever is missing through the amp or DAW.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

Also, what I'm hearing as warmth may be the more vocal quality of Alnico II pickups in the neck, especially on bends. A5's seem less responsive to touch and dynamics generally, IMO.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

Adding more output does kill highs.

It does when you add more winds in the same kind of PU. Bridge PU's are wound hotter to increase output and soften highs.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

59B with a ceramic magnet.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

It does when you add more winds in the same kind of PU. Bridge PU's are wound hotter to increase output and soften highs.

Right. However, something like a Duncan Distortion has way more winds than a 59 and yet is perceived to be shrill. I'm sure a ceramic vs. Alnico V magnet also plays a part but I'm not convinced that winding a pup hotter by itself will make it sound darker by default. I'm more concerned about whether this increased output will shift the mids and lower highs and thus fix muddy neck pup issues. One might argue that a hotter pup cuts through better and thus sounds brighter when it isn't.

That is what I had with the 57/57+, which I keep bringing up because they're the closest pups I've tried to the 59. The 57+ seemed to sizzle and bite more, and have more output around 2k.

The highs I'm thinking beyond the Jazz are far more subtle than the usual 2-3 khz range. More around 5-7khz. "Edge" might be a better term.

The PG bridge *would have* been perfect save the little breakup it has in the highs. People tell me the neck is much tamer.

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

Depending on yer br p/up,maybe a JB?

 

[dominus]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

Try wiring the neck humbucker in parallel.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

The JB is great in the neck, especially split. It just damned near overpowers anything else in the bridge.

 

[shawnlanefan]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

I have a Jazz bridge in the neck of a guitar and I really like it. I've been thinking I should try it in more guitars to see if its good there too. I'd say I like it better, just from hearing it in that one guitar than all the other guitars I have Jazz n's in.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

I have a Jazz bridge in the neck of a guitar and I really like it. I've been thinking I should try it in more guitars to see if its good there too. I'd say I like it better, just from hearing it in that one guitar than all the other guitars I have Jazz n's in.

Those are somewhat hard to find, no?

 

[shawnlanefan]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

They are probably alot less common than the neck model, as far as finding them used. Wouldn't be a problem getting them new though.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

If you're liking Gibson pickups, check out the Gibson Burstbucker Pros. Don't have much experience with the Jazz, but the Burstbuckers are definitely brighter and less flubby than the '59. They are pretty easy to find used too.

I'm also very fond of the EMG 60 and not overly fond of the Duncan '59 in the neck position, but I'm not sure you're going to get an EMG 60-ish vibe out of a PAF-ish style pickup overall. I've always thought of the 60 either as an 80's kinda hot, screaming pickup which happens to sound nice clean too, or as a tweaked 81 that's slightly more open, slightly less hot and compressed, and less mid-focused, but that's just me.

I think you might find something along the lines of the 60 if you look at the Distortion neck, Black Winter neck, Evolution neck, etc.

Also, FWIW, the EMG HZ H3 is supposed to be the passive version of the 60 kinda like the H4 is the passive 81. Used to have those on a Jackson. They were OK-ish. Not really pups I'd recommend, but they did have kind of a 60-ish vibe.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

If you don't care for Duncan PAFs then why keep trying them?

That said based on your posts and sticking with SD pickups (this is the SD forum after all!) is say either an Alnico II Pro bridge in the neck or an Alnico III 59 bridge in the neck.

On the clean up issue make sure you're using a quality 500k pot with a good taper.

I love the DiMarzio branded CTS pots and they're 7 bucks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Aceman]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

If you're looking for 'brighter and snappier in the top end' than a Jazz, and found the '59N to be 'flubby and boxy', the odds of a '59B acheiving that are about nil. A '59B is wound hotter and going to have less high end than a '59N. Demon is going to be hotter and warmer than that.

You're simultaneously wanting warmth & bright and snappy. Before we can help, you're going to have to make up your mind which direction you want to go: more treble or less treble.

That's fascinating Rick. I was not aware that the Demon would be both hotter and wrier (or darker or flubbier or whatever). I was kind of surprised at this comment.

I have read a lot of posts where guys who find the Pearly Gates "not bright enough" in the neck move to a Demon?!?!?!?

I'm really surprised at this comment based on the style music you seem to play and choice in guitars. Exactly how many guitars have you had a Screamin' Demon in? Have you ever actually owned one? Or had one in more than one guitar? Or played it through a Diable or 5150 or such an amp (not that we know the style of music or gear the OP is using….).

I was just wondering about your personal experiences with this pickup as I have really never heard you speak of it before.

 

[Aceman]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

By the way - two comments to the OP.

We may have a communication issue here: Warmer AND snappier in the high end are sort of opposites. It's like saying I want a drinker that is cooler, but hotter. Unless you mean speed and percussiveness of attack vs tone fatness.

Also - I think the PG may very well do it for you: Less Bass, an upper mid hump for clarity, and a sweet a2 top? But you say it doesn't clean up? Never had any problems geeing clean from a PG. Are you setting up too close to strings?

Finally - seriously think about the parallel wiring. It may really deliver the tone you want.

Still having problems with warmer/snappier….

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

I'm looking for something a little warmer than the Jazz but also brighter and snappier in the top end (very top end--around 5-7k)

Thanks.

Pearly Gates neck or Alnico II Pro neck. Done deal. Nothing will be brighter or snappier in the top end than a Jazz but either the PG or the A2P will be close to the top end of the Jazz while being warmer. You can't have it all though.

You're welcome.

 

[Aceman]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

Pearly Gates neck or Alnico II Pro neck. Done deal. Nothing will be brighter or snappier in the top end than a Jazz but either the PG or the A2P will be close to the top end of the Jazz while being warmer. You can't have it all though.

You're welcome.

I think a lot of pups would be….

Any Ceramic, Full Shred, we could debate….

But to my ears:

59 Snappiest
PG Snap, but sweet on top. Rides the middle of these three, but closer to a 59 with a touch of A2P
A2P - highs, yes. Snap? No. Big fat highs.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: 59 bridge in neck

I think a lot of pups would be….

Any Ceramic, Full Shred, we could debate….

But to my ears:

59 Snappiest
PG Snap, but sweet on top. Rides the middle of these three, but closer to a 59 with a touch of A2P
A2P - highs, yes. Snap? No. Big fat highs.

Although it's true the A2P is not as snappy as the PG due to it's smooth highs, it is possible to get snap out of the A2P with split coil operation.

In the end though, I do think the OP should try a PGn for sure.