60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

[LostInMyMindPalace]

Question that's been on my mind awhile, does anyone know what heights pickups in the 60s were coming out of the fender factory (for strats)? Is there any documentation of what factory spec they were working to? Whenever I look at old posters the pickups seem relatively level not angled as most people have them today...

 

[Adieu]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

Afaik factories weren't big on factory setups back then??

Those days were more "grab your own screwdriver and dial in what suits you" logic, no? Hell, some countries didn't even usually sell appliances with power chords installed

 

[Mincer]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

Yeah, I've never read of one, but that doesn't mean there weren't guidelines for them.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

Old Strat manuals that I have seen do not list factory setup guidelines. They just talk about how the pickups can be adjusted to accentuate certain strings, if that's what you want. They also generally show the pickups parallel to the pickguard.

Also, remember that the typical electric guitar string set back then was 12's or 13's with a wound G. Fender called their set of flat wound 12's "light gauge." Lighter gauge string sets came to popularity in the '60's, or people made them themselves by moving a set of 13's down a string, and adding a .010 banjo string for the high E. Ernie Ball Slinky strings were an early string set that came this way, without the user having to do the banjo string deal. By the end of the decade, Fender was selling a "rock-n-roll" set, which was designed to compete with the E.B. Slinkies. But even as 10's with a plain G came to take over in the '60's, the "norm" was still heavy strings. As such, factory setup might have been very different from what most rock-n-roll players ended up with in the end.

FWIW, I think my Strat pickups are usually set up pretty flat.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

If you're of the 'high as they will go' shool (I'm not,) then the treble side can be raised higher due to less magnet pull influence. I keep mine flat and fairly low unless that causes a severe imbalance (and it doesn't.)

 

[AlexR]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

The angle might be an additional attempt to get height for bass string signal without the G string warble. Most pickups seem still to feature the full stagger, but most guitars do not have the corresponding 7.25 deg radius the originals all had (the string type is covered already).

I have 7.25deg fretboards exclusively....and seem to have them quite flat. Although being a lefty the reversed stagger helps there too.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

Old Strat manuals that I have seen do not list factory setup guidelines. They just talk about how the pickups can be adjusted to accentuate certain strings, if that's what you want. They also generally show the pickups parallel to the pickguard.

Also, remember that the typical electric guitar string set back then was 12's or 13's with a wound G. Fender called their set of flat wound 12's "light gauge." Lighter gauge string sets came to popularity in the '60's, or people made them themselves by moving a set of 13's down a string, and adding a .010 banjo string for the high E. Ernie Ball Slinky strings were an early string set that came this way, without the user having to do the banjo string deal. By the end of the decade, Fender was selling a "rock-n-roll" set, which was designed to compete with the E.B. Slinkies. But even as 10's with a plain G came to take over in the '60's, the "norm" was still heavy strings. As such, factory setup might have been very different from what most rock-n-roll players ended up with in the end.

FWIW, I think my Strat pickups are usually set up pretty flat.

The Fender 10-38 set was around before EB came out with the Slinkies, I think the Gibson 9-40 sets also predated Slinkies. Fender also later came out with a 9-40 set, that one might have been to compete with EB and Gibson. Before EB, string gauges were different with sets from different companies, after some time all the companies adopted the EB gauges, like 9-42 and 10-46.
Al

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

The Fender 10-38 set was around before EB came out with the Slinkies, I think the Gibson 9-40 sets also predated Slinkies. Fender also later came out with a 9-40 set, that one might have been to compete with EB and Gibson. Before EB, string gauges were different with sets from different companies, after some time all the companies adopted the EB gauges, like 9-42 and 10-46.
Al

This cannot be true, because Ernie Ball, who at the time was just a retailer, attempted to get both the Gibson and Fender companies to release lighter gauge string sets, and they would not do it. So he started to do it in his shop. This was done by using other companies' strings that were set up to be purchased individually. It eventually morphed into him putting together pre-packaged sets with his own name on them.

When are you saying that Slinkies came out, and when are you saying that the Fender 10–38 set and Gibson 9–40 set came out?

 

[Mincer]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

String history is something that is fascinating to me, and something I don't know much about.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

The Fender 10-38 set was around before EB came out with the Slinkies, I think the Gibson 9-40 sets also predated Slinkies. Fender also later came out with a 9-40 set, that one might have been to compete with EB and Gibson. Before EB, string gauges were different with sets from different companies, after some time all the companies adopted the EB gauges, like 9-42 and 10-46.
Al

Nope. I’m 61, so I remember very well. [emoji2]

From Wikipedia:

“With the guitar-based rock revival of the 1960s, Ball noticed that beginning students were having difficulty playing the bestselling Fender #100 medium gauge strings, particularly in holding down or bending the stiff 29-gauge third ("G") string. At the time, it was common for a set of strings to have a "wound" third string.

He approached the Fender company with the problem, suggesting a lighter gauge but was rebuffed. Ball convinced a string manufacturer to make him custom sets with a 24-gauge third string which he sold in his store. It was the beginning of the Ernie Ball brand.

Located not far from Hollywood, the store began to attract a large patronage of professional musicians, including The Beach Boys, Merle Travis, and The Ventures. Ball also began to notice the practice of "slack stringing" among players who discarded the bottom sixth string and added a banjo first string on top. This resulted in an overall lighter gauge set with a plain third string.

Again, he contacted Fender with a suggestion for a lighter set and was turned down. He then approached Gibson, who also turned him down. So, once again he ordered from the manufacturer naming the product the Ernie Ball Slinky.[11] "Slinky" strings traveled the country with the pro musicians who used them and before long, Ball was receiving mail orders from individuals and stores.[12] Still not a string company, he ordered separate strings in various sizes and displayed them in a makeshift case allowing musicians to experiment in creating their own sets. It took off, and in 1967 he sold the store and moved his string business to Newport Beach, California.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Adieu]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

How many and what springs did they run on trems with those monster strings???

My heaviest setup is 11-56 (iirc) on Drop D, OFR, 24.75" scale... and the trem is already a bit too stiff.

How the hell did the flimsier Fender vintage trem fare with 12's or 13's in Estd on a longer scale????

 

[AlexR]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

It does plenty fine. You have adjustment screws to tension the claw as well as 5 springs at the rear. There is no issue as contrary to a floyd the fender was designed around the heavier strings. Floyds were invented when people were already getting super thin things like 9's. You usually have to mod a floyd to fit the fatter (stock) strings from the 50's.
Plus it was never designed for divebombs - only the shimmer that it does very well.

 

[Adieu]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

It does plenty fine. You have adjustment screws to tension the claw as well as 5 springs at the rear. There is no issue as contrary to a floyd the fender was designed around the heavier strings. Floyds were invented when people were already getting super thin things like 9's. You usually have to mod a floyd to fit the fatter (stock) strings from the 50's.
Plus it was never designed for divebombs - only the shimmer that it does very well.

Exactly which part of an OFR is lighter duty than a vintage Fender trem though?

And isnt the claw and spring setup pretty much identical???

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

I don't think he meant it was lighter duty. But I can see the larger strings being too wide to fit Floyd saddle channels.

 

[AlexR]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

Every time you introduce more working parts you lose a degree of structural integrity. AFAIK every floyd iteration does away with the strings being anchored in the block, and relies on fiddly tensioned wedges. Then each string has individual tensioners for finetuning....meaning each string assembly has additional movement associated with that.

It is not a wonder to me then that the very real 'tonal shift' that comes from having a floyd is there. Its ability for tuning and note alteration come at the very significant cost of inherent guitar tone. Luckily for most players they smother this in gobs of pickup output and amp saturation to compensate and never know the difference.

 

[Adieu]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

I don't think he meant it was lighter duty. But I can see the larger strings being too wide to fit Floyd saddle channels.

It works for 7 strings, baritones, and people who play dropA on regular 6 strings... somehow doubt the legendary 50's pioneers, regardless of their mythical badazzery, went with higher than 70's (70 mil / 0.070") for their low E

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

Nope. I’m 61, so I remember very well. [emoji2]

From Wikipedia:

“With the guitar-based rock revival of the 1960s, Ball noticed that beginning students were having difficulty playing the bestselling Fender #100 medium gauge strings, particularly in holding down or bending the stiff 29-gauge third ("G") string. At the time, it was common for a set of strings to have a "wound" third string.

He approached the Fender company with the problem, suggesting a lighter gauge but was rebuffed. Ball convinced a string manufacturer to make him custom sets with a 24-gauge third string which he sold in his store. It was the beginning of the Ernie Ball brand.

Located not far from Hollywood, the store began to attract a large patronage of professional musicians, including The Beach Boys, Merle Travis, and The Ventures. Ball also began to notice the practice of "slack stringing" among players who discarded the bottom sixth string and added a banjo first string on top. This resulted in an overall lighter gauge set with a plain third string.

Again, he contacted Fender with a suggestion for a lighter set and was turned down. He then approached Gibson, who also turned him down. So, once again he ordered from the manufacturer naming the product the Ernie Ball Slinky.[11] "Slinky" strings traveled the country with the pro musicians who used them and before long, Ball was receiving mail orders from individuals and stores.[12] Still not a string company, he ordered separate strings in various sizes and displayed them in a makeshift case allowing musicians to experiment in creating their own sets. It took off, and in 1967 he sold the store and moved his string business to Newport Beach, California.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, I remember that the Fender 10-38 strings were available when I was a kid, because a friend turned me on to them, I was struggling with the medium gauge Fender strings at the time and it was a revelation to me. I also remember that EB came out with their strings later. Wikipedia is not always correct, it is built on information from regular people, not always experts. Also, when EB first came out with strings, they only had the Super Slinky sets, 9-42, and added the other gauges later.
Al

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: 60s strat factory spec pickup heights?

Well, I remember that the Fender 10-38 strings were available when I was a kid, because a friend turned me on to them, I was struggling with the medium gauge Fender strings at the time and it was a revelation to me. I also remember that EB came out with their strings later. Wikipedia is not always correct, it is built on information from regular people, not always experts. Also, when EB first came out with strings, they only had the Super Slinky sets, 9-42, and added the other gauges later.
Al

And what year was this?