6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

[Dr.Mavashi]

Well hello there .... nice to be back with an actual question here ....

Might be heading to the studio next year to capture my best material yet .... so would like to get the tone right, at least try ...

I love my JJ E34Ls, but I would like to get a bit more of that "chimey brightness" alas George Lynch's Wicked Sensation and a bit more of an open tone - E34Ls are a bit compressed to my ear. AT the same time i do not want to loose the responsiveness and tight low end of E34Ls.

Based on the clips i've listened to - 6CA7s could be it. My main pup is fullshred i a little concerned that it might get slightly brittle with fullshred + 6CA7s, no ?

 

[Surgeon]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

I love 6CA7s although I've only used Electro Harmonix ones... they have a bit more bass and highs than regular EL34s to my ears. In some amps it works great, in others not so much. I loved 'em in my former Rocker 30 (Orange) and, while good, they're not as amazing in my Thunderverb50. They do sound unbelievable in my Hiwatt though. You'll have to try them first I'm afraid.

What amp are they going into? I assume the Laney or the JCM900 but which?

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

surgeon,
Yes, i will be trying them for a bit, it will be a Laney AOR 50. How is the responsiveness on them comparing to EL34 ?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

Punchier, louder and with more low end.
Good, but different.
What preamp tubes are you running?
You might also find you get what you need purely by installing fresh tubes. How old are the ones you are using now?

 

[Surgeon]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

surgeon,
Yes, i will be trying them for a bit, it will be a Laney AOR 50. How is the responsiveness on them comparing to EL34 ?

I've always found 'em to be pretty much the same response-wise. As gibson175 stated, they're punchier. Lots of folks consider them a hybrid between el34s and 6l6s. I wouldn't go so far but I understand why they'd say that. There's lots of mids but more low-end punch.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

I love 6CA7s in a JCM800 or similarly voiced amp. In other amp circuits, not so much.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

Punchier, louder and with more low end.
Good, but different.
What preamp tubes are you running?
You might also find you get what you need purely by installing fresh tubes. How old are the ones you are using now?

Gibson, first off, the quote in your sig - Thank you man! you cant even imagine how much i am blown away by it, perhaps a topic for a different thread.

So, I am running in my pre- amp, JJECC83S, goldpin in V1, V2&V4 high gain, V3 matched triode.

you say more low end, but is it low end across the board or just on the low end spectrum ?
I like punchier, but also want the sound a bit brighter, and chewier, almost tube rectifier like ... but not like Mesa ....

Thank you !

Twilight, nice to see you Bro, glad you are still around here ... !

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

Depends a bit on what 6CA7 we are talking about. The EH version on the market right now is actually a 6L6 in that its a beam tetrode but they use an EL34 pin out so it runs without mods on EL34 amps. The JJ version I havent seen up close but looks to be the closest electronically to what a 6CA7 was originally. I have no idea what the Shuguang 6CA7 is suppose to be its a completely different plate and getter structure, its acutally kind of a strange tube.

Sound wise the EH's basically sound like a 6l6 but have a bigger bottom with higher headroom. The JJ's sound more like a EL34 but with more headroom and different mid texture. The shuguangs are interesting, glassy but seem to lack the big bottom of the others.

As for chewier... 6CA7's are a move in the wrong direction.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

I'd get a couple of E-H or Tung-Sol 12AX7s and try swapping them in one at at time. IME, these will give your amp a little more brightness over the JJ pres. Might be a better, and cheaper, solution than the new power tubes.

Bill

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

Gibson, first off, the quote in your sig - Thank you man! you cant even imagine how much i am blown away by it, perhaps a topic for a different thread.

So, I am running in my pre- amp, JJECC83S, goldpin in V1, V2&V4 high gain, V3 matched triode.

you say more low end, but is it low end across the board or just on the low end spectrum ?
I like punchier, but also want the sound a bit brighter, and chewier, almost tube rectifier like ... but not like Mesa ....

Thank you !

Twilight, nice to see you Bro, glad you are still around here ... !

definitely not chewier. its a bigger headroom type of vibe.
Re: low end...the amp has its own inherent eq, but you will find that 6ca7s do not get loose down low whereas el34s can get a little spongy (in a good way).

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

Hmm ... in clips that i've heard 6CA7s sound with more of a liquid type of brightness, i guess that's what I mean by "chewiness"........ and i like how my amp sounds at the moment i just want a bit more bright, complex, fluid mids .... considering that AORs pre-amps are known to be super tube sensitive i am going for a power tube option as it has less of an impact, if that makes any sense at all ...

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

Hmm ... in clips that i've heard 6CA7s sound with more of a liquid type of brightness, i guess that's what I mean by "chewiness"........ and i like how my amp sounds at the moment i just want a bit more bright, complex, fluid mids .... considering that AORs pre-amps are known to be super tube sensitive i am going for a power tube option as it has less of an impact, if that makes any sense at all ...

Really for the small change you are going to get if you are happy with the way the amp sounds now I would leave it as is. Then spend more time on mic placement. The stuff you are talking about is so minute that it will easily get lost in bad production.

 

[dystrust]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

I'd get a couple of E-H or Tung-Sol 12AX7s and try swapping them in one at at time. IME, these will give your amp a little more brightness over the JJ pres. Might be a better, and cheaper, solution than the new power tubes.

Bill

+1
JJ preamp tubes tend to be rather dark in comparison to most others on the market. In a higher gain master volume amp preamp tubes tend to have a greater influence on tone than power tubes do unless you're pushing the power amp into clipping.

 

[HeftyMetalGuitar]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

I have a Bogner Barcelona which is designed for 6CA7's. I have already experimented with EL34's which seem to break up a little bit easier and whatever mid hump of EL34's are kind of shifted down towards low mid and bass with 6CA7s. This is the only amp in recent memory which uses 6CA7s but my perception is that they sound kind of like a big bottle 6V6 in a way. Don't take any of this as if I'm saying with any technical expertise rather just my non-technical perception. I have read that 6V6 is like a smaller 6L6 with more EL34 kind of mid range, and that I suppose I could generally agree with, so that's also my perception with 6CA7. In my Barcelona they're warm, articulate, detailed and kind of less pronounced hazy Bogner midrange.

 

[Demanic]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

My experience with a 6CA7 in my Picovalve was that it was middy like an EL34 but much thicker down in the bottom. From what you say you are looking for, I would see if you can bias the amp to take KT-77's. Tight bottom but a very complex mid/top end. Not as much bottom as a KT-88 though.

 

[Hank-]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

I have used the regular jj EL34 & their 6CA7 in my laney lc50. The el34 have a different vibe to them, chimey in a way. The 6CA7 are more balanced but hard to describe, more lows and lower mids, uninteresting high/top end, little less midrange overall, when compared to the el34. I do like the 6ca7s more though since my amp is bright sounding.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

My experience with a 6CA7 in my Picovalve was that it was middy like an EL34 but much thicker down in the bottom. From what you say you are looking for, I would see if you can bias the amp to take KT-77's. Tight bottom but a very complex mid/top end. Not as much bottom as a KT-88 though.

"Hmmm, how would you say is articulation KT-77 vs E34L vs 6CA7s?"

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

"Hmmm, how would you say is articulation KT-77 vs E34L vs 6CA7s?"

Articulation is more going to be a function of the amp not the tube. If a tube change changes articulation its cause you have more/less headroom, unless you are running the amp really loud you should have plent of headroom even with EL34's

Keep in mind Demanics experience is coming from a Picovalve. A single ended amp running only 5 watts through a tube reacts differently than a class AB2 push pull amp to tube changes. The power supplies are miles apart. For example he gushes about KT88's in that amp. A KT88 is designed to output around a max dissipation of 42 watts. That picovalve is barely tickling it so the way it reacts is much different than your amp.

 

[Demanic]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

"Gushes" eh? True, my experience with the above mentioned tubes is with my Picovalve. I never claimed universal multiple amp exhaustive testing. Even so, I am able to hear some obvious tonal differences between the tubes mentioned. Based on that, I call it like I hear it.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: 6CA7s vs JJ E34Ls

"Gushes" eh? True, my experience with the above mentioned tubes is with my Picovalve. I never claimed universal multiple amp exhaustive testing. Even so, I am able to hear some obvious tonal differences between the tubes mentioned. Based on that, I call it like I hear it.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

Sorry didnt mean it like that... but it is true you do give a rosy glow when you talk about KT88's. I also did not imply at all that your experience was invalid. It is very true for the sphere it occurred in. My point was a single ended amp vs a class ab2 are very different power supplies and react very different. In particular when you are comparing something like headroom because the picovalve doesnt have the juice to really push higher power valves.