70's Era Gibsons
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drew_half_empty
Looking for Real Life
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
kinda like cbs fenders right?
kinda like cbs fenders right?
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
Ok, let's...
Most of them are junk that are selling for 3 and 4 times what they could ever be worth somply because they are "old" guitars now...they had multi piece bodies, some of the worst QC ever, the pickups are pure garbage as was most of the hardware...add to that some of the worst neck profiles in Gibson history and the fact that Norlin took EVERY single chance to save a buck and you ended up with crappy guitars.
This actually started in the late 60's but by the 70's was full force and only got worse.
There are a few good Norlin era guitars out there but belive me there are very few and far between but the funniest thing abotu it to me is that every fool thats got a Norlin era Gibson claims that they have the rare gem and it's all the others that suck...
Makes me think that there are a lot of guitar players that simply don't know good from bad or that a lot of guys are of the mind that the name on the headstock makes it a good guitar, another reason is that their favorite guitar player played Gibson's IN the 70's so they must be good or the last (and IMO saddest possibility!) that some poor shmoe bought some middle 70's Gibson from a vintage dealer and is just positive he has a great guitar simply because he paid a lot of money for it...
I've been around guitars my whole life and have been playing them myself coming up on 15 years...I spent a lot of my younger years at vintage guitar shops and shows aqnd have owned a lot of guitars and have played way more and the truth is that I wouldn't piss on 99% of Norlin era gibson guitars to put out a fire.
Ok, let's...
Most of them are junk that are selling for 3 and 4 times what they could ever be worth somply because they are "old" guitars now...they had multi piece bodies, some of the worst QC ever, the pickups are pure garbage as was most of the hardware...add to that some of the worst neck profiles in Gibson history and the fact that Norlin took EVERY single chance to save a buck and you ended up with crappy guitars.
This actually started in the late 60's but by the 70's was full force and only got worse.
There are a few good Norlin era guitars out there but belive me there are very few and far between but the funniest thing abotu it to me is that every fool thats got a Norlin era Gibson claims that they have the rare gem and it's all the others that suck...
Makes me think that there are a lot of guitar players that simply don't know good from bad or that a lot of guys are of the mind that the name on the headstock makes it a good guitar, another reason is that their favorite guitar player played Gibson's IN the 70's so they must be good or the last (and IMO saddest possibility!) that some poor shmoe bought some middle 70's Gibson from a vintage dealer and is just positive he has a great guitar simply because he paid a lot of money for it...
I've been around guitars my whole life and have been playing them myself coming up on 15 years...I spent a lot of my younger years at vintage guitar shops and shows aqnd have owned a lot of guitars and have played way more and the truth is that I wouldn't piss on 99% of Norlin era gibson guitars to put out a fire.
drew_half_empty
Looking for Real Life
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
yeah
and he INVENTED it
think about that
yeah
and he INVENTED it
think about that
Wattage
High Voltologist
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
So TGWIF how do you really feel, please don't hold back -:lmao:
I have no love for pancake body LPs but I have played some that were really good guitars if you could get passed the weight issues. I have had my hands on some great LP Customs that were Norlin's, the prices these days are a little rich for my blood though. I have played some real nice Firebirds and Explorers from the 70's and quite a few SG's as well but most of them have had work done to them over the years and are pretty well played in so that always makes them seem nicer.
So TGWIF how do you really feel, please don't hold back -:lmao:
I have no love for pancake body LPs but I have played some that were really good guitars if you could get passed the weight issues. I have had my hands on some great LP Customs that were Norlin's, the prices these days are a little rich for my blood though. I have played some real nice Firebirds and Explorers from the 70's and quite a few SG's as well but most of them have had work done to them over the years and are pretty well played in so that always makes them seem nicer.
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
i've been playing for almost 30 years... i've seen my fair share of 70's Gibsons... I own a 76 LP Deluxe... i bought the Deluxe used when they were pretty cheap in 1989 i think... saddly i bought a lemon, the PU's were microphones and neck warped many times... the neck ended up having to be steamed off and reset with a new board and a partial refinnish...
I basicly bought my 76 Deluexe because it was the model Townshend used on stage.... mind you his were super modded with custom shaved neck shapes and extra electronics... I've always felt every 70's Deluxe i've ever tried out at a store is better then the one i own... Many many techs and friends have said my 76 LP is the heaviest LP they have ever had in there hands
the multi "lame" bodies of the later 70's LP's never bothered me that much... you can still find good ones... It's not the best guitar construction that is for sure... but my only working axe i had in 1989 when i bought the LP was a 1987 Plywood Kramer, so a multi piece LP was a step up!...
if i was a serious collector with lots of money you bet your butt i'd own a batch of 1971-75 era LP Deluxes with the mahogany necks... Goldtops and red sunburst models... maybe a few wine red models from 75/76 when they started the maple necks...
i've been playing for almost 30 years... i've seen my fair share of 70's Gibsons... I own a 76 LP Deluxe... i bought the Deluxe used when they were pretty cheap in 1989 i think... saddly i bought a lemon, the PU's were microphones and neck warped many times... the neck ended up having to be steamed off and reset with a new board and a partial refinnish...
I basicly bought my 76 Deluexe because it was the model Townshend used on stage.... mind you his were super modded with custom shaved neck shapes and extra electronics... I've always felt every 70's Deluxe i've ever tried out at a store is better then the one i own... Many many techs and friends have said my 76 LP is the heaviest LP they have ever had in there hands
the multi "lame" bodies of the later 70's LP's never bothered me that much... you can still find good ones... It's not the best guitar construction that is for sure... but my only working axe i had in 1989 when i bought the LP was a 1987 Plywood Kramer, so a multi piece LP was a step up!...
if i was a serious collector with lots of money you bet your butt i'd own a batch of 1971-75 era LP Deluxes with the mahogany necks... Goldtops and red sunburst models... maybe a few wine red models from 75/76 when they started the maple necks...
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
Actually, Norlin era Gibsons are worse than CBS Fenders--at least you can make a Fender playable without too much trouble.
The store I used to buy most of my new stuff from sold new Gibsons, some of the new guitars they were sent would just make you wonder WTF. One that stands out was a Les Paul Standard with a four piece top that didn't come anywhere close to matching--finished in CLEAR?
Then there's the Marauder/S-1 and the Sonex models--these things make an Epiphone look GOOD, and people are trying to get $600-$700 for them? Sheesh.
Maybe 1970 should be the cut-off date for "vintage" Gibsons and Fenders--everything after that is just "used" and priced accordingly.
Actually, Norlin era Gibsons are worse than CBS Fenders--at least you can make a Fender playable without too much trouble.
The store I used to buy most of my new stuff from sold new Gibsons, some of the new guitars they were sent would just make you wonder WTF. One that stands out was a Les Paul Standard with a four piece top that didn't come anywhere close to matching--finished in CLEAR?
Then there's the Marauder/S-1 and the Sonex models--these things make an Epiphone look GOOD, and people are trying to get $600-$700 for them? Sheesh.
Maybe 1970 should be the cut-off date for "vintage" Gibsons and Fenders--everything after that is just "used" and priced accordingly.
Hellion
New member
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
Both of my SGs and my main LP Custom are mid to late 70s models. I've never had any problems with any of them. The LP is really heavy, but that's never bothered me much, because I like a guitar that either moves WITH me (SG) or doesn't move AT ALL (LP). Since I've been doing this guitar stuff for over 30 years, I've never pigeon holed a guitar because they were a certain age. I have a fondness for that particular era of guitar, though. It's what was around when I was growing up. I'll agree that a lot of them are trash, but we're seeing a lot of trash nowadays, too, aren't we? It's not all just about the production year. Used guitar prices are ridiculous, and you're right, a lot of that has to do with the fact that they're just "old" guitars, with no consideration to the quality of the instrument.
Both of my SGs and my main LP Custom are mid to late 70s models. I've never had any problems with any of them. The LP is really heavy, but that's never bothered me much, because I like a guitar that either moves WITH me (SG) or doesn't move AT ALL (LP). Since I've been doing this guitar stuff for over 30 years, I've never pigeon holed a guitar because they were a certain age. I have a fondness for that particular era of guitar, though. It's what was around when I was growing up. I'll agree that a lot of them are trash, but we're seeing a lot of trash nowadays, too, aren't we? It's not all just about the production year. Used guitar prices are ridiculous, and you're right, a lot of that has to do with the fact that they're just "old" guitars, with no consideration to the quality of the instrument.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
The pickups can be all over the place from great PAF-alike Ttops down to expoxied 6.0 Kohm bridge pieces.
The pancake bodies and superheavy LPCs, many like them. However, I gained the impression that these are exceptions, aka people who picked the best out of hundreds of guitars. They also tend to have a center of gravity towards the beginning and the end of the Norlin area.
I had a 1975 LPC a long time ago, so long that I can't put it into perspective with later guitars. It certainly had no particular flaw, but I wouldn't be able to say how it compares to e.g. a 1986 LP Standard. The case was a potential headstock killer, though, you really need to watch out. Don't ever let somebody mail you a LP in such as case.
The pickups can be all over the place from great PAF-alike Ttops down to expoxied 6.0 Kohm bridge pieces.
The pancake bodies and superheavy LPCs, many like them. However, I gained the impression that these are exceptions, aka people who picked the best out of hundreds of guitars. They also tend to have a center of gravity towards the beginning and the end of the Norlin area.
I had a 1975 LPC a long time ago, so long that I can't put it into perspective with later guitars. It certainly had no particular flaw, but I wouldn't be able to say how it compares to e.g. a 1986 LP Standard. The case was a potential headstock killer, though, you really need to watch out. Don't ever let somebody mail you a LP in such as case.
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
I'd agree that the 70's Gibsons aren't that great. I've owned three of them over the years, and they all had problems; and now they have all gone bye-bye--repalced by 1996 and newer Gibsons.
I do think Gibson has been making some very good guitars since the 1990s. For what you'd pay for a Norlin-era Les Paul, you can get a new Historic--and there is simply no comparison--the Historics are much better guitars.
You will find individual guitars that are good, even great--but I'd have to give the nod to a contemporay Gibson.
Bill
I'd agree that the 70's Gibsons aren't that great. I've owned three of them over the years, and they all had problems; and now they have all gone bye-bye--repalced by 1996 and newer Gibsons.
I do think Gibson has been making some very good guitars since the 1990s. For what you'd pay for a Norlin-era Les Paul, you can get a new Historic--and there is simply no comparison--the Historics are much better guitars.
You will find individual guitars that are good, even great--but I'd have to give the nod to a contemporay Gibson.
Bill
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
OK- I'm callin' out THE PUNK WHO THINKS HE INVENTED FIRE.
But before we start...I just want to say I respect you bro and at the end of the day I agree to actually agree with most things you say in most posts, and agree to disagree with most of what's being said here.
But- if you are gonna get your panties in a wad and we won't be able to have a beer afterwards - then stop reading now.
OK- I'm callin' out THE PUNK WHO THINKS HE INVENTED FIRE.
But before we start...I just want to say I respect you bro and at the end of the day I agree to actually agree with most things you say in most posts, and agree to disagree with most of what's being said here.
But- if you are gonna get your panties in a wad and we won't be able to have a beer afterwards - then stop reading now.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
Hey guys...remember there are no right or wrong answers in this...it's all what makes one man happy...
What makes me UNhappy is buying a guitar that costs, what is IMO a lot of money that is simply not really worth it...
Example, you can buy an early 70's Deluxe that might or might not be a good guitar (FWIW, I'd say your chances are 80/20...the 80 being that the guitar will likely be a turd...and I feel like this is a generous number) and it will cost you 4k+ in most places in good or better condition, I've even seen 70's Deluxes break 5k...
Now think about that, think about the last 70's Deluxe you played and ask youself this question...would you rather have that 70's Deluxe or would you rather pocket a few grand and end up with a Historic 57 or 58 reissue???
Im not saying that all Norlins are bad, just most of them!
Im also saying that I have little to no interest in sorting through a truck load of Norlin era guitars that weight a metic ton, because the bodies are made form a dozen (or more) pieces of wood, that have junk hardware on them and terrible neck profiles and on top of all that pay twice or more what I could pay for a Historic and end up getting a fourth of the guitar. If I want to sort through a load of Gibson guitars to get a gem I'll stick with new non CS ones...even as hit or miss as those are they are far less miss than Norlin.
Hey guys...remember there are no right or wrong answers in this...it's all what makes one man happy...
What makes me UNhappy is buying a guitar that costs, what is IMO a lot of money that is simply not really worth it...
Example, you can buy an early 70's Deluxe that might or might not be a good guitar (FWIW, I'd say your chances are 80/20...the 80 being that the guitar will likely be a turd...and I feel like this is a generous number) and it will cost you 4k+ in most places in good or better condition, I've even seen 70's Deluxes break 5k...
Now think about that, think about the last 70's Deluxe you played and ask youself this question...would you rather have that 70's Deluxe or would you rather pocket a few grand and end up with a Historic 57 or 58 reissue???
Im not saying that all Norlins are bad, just most of them!
Im also saying that I have little to no interest in sorting through a truck load of Norlin era guitars that weight a metic ton, because the bodies are made form a dozen (or more) pieces of wood, that have junk hardware on them and terrible neck profiles and on top of all that pay twice or more what I could pay for a Historic and end up getting a fourth of the guitar. If I want to sort through a load of Gibson guitars to get a gem I'll stick with new non CS ones...even as hit or miss as those are they are far less miss than Norlin.
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
to tell the truth after owning my 76 Deluxe almost 20 years i hate picking up the new ones and they feel like air... to me a Les Paul should be somewhat heavy....
if i could go back to the mid 80's when i was teenager in high school i would do my best to buy some of the 70's axes that were offered to me... i passed on some nicer ones.. and $400-$800 was the going prices back then...
i should add oneday i may sell my 76... i never really use it... i may try and find a better example...
to tell the truth after owning my 76 Deluxe almost 20 years i hate picking up the new ones and they feel like air... to me a Les Paul should be somewhat heavy....
if i could go back to the mid 80's when i was teenager in high school i would do my best to buy some of the 70's axes that were offered to me... i passed on some nicer ones.. and $400-$800 was the going prices back then...
i should add oneday i may sell my 76... i never really use it... i may try and find a better example...
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
Thank goodness that didn't happen to Gibsons from the 50's! That 58/9 plank-o-whatever spotted frickin' maple they threw on top is worth every bit of that 200 grand they are paying for it! and the fidelity of 50 pots and caps after 60 years - it doesn't get any scratchier - I mean better - than that. Any guitar that is to be played is worth only a) How it sounds and b) how it feels. Both are a matter of preference by the individual player. To say that Norlin as a class is crap is no better than saying 50's as a class is great. Neither is true - as I will demonstrate. But - I would challenge you to explain how a 50's LP of any quality REALLY sounds/feels $198,000 dollars better than a 70's. caveat: I exclude collecting for the sake of collecting - at which point weirder and rarer will always win.
Thank goodness that didn't happen to Gibsons from the 50's! That 58/9 plank-o-whatever spotted frickin' maple they threw on top is worth every bit of that 200 grand they are paying for it! and the fidelity of 50 pots and caps after 60 years - it doesn't get any scratchier - I mean better - than that. Any guitar that is to be played is worth only a) How it sounds and b) how it feels. Both are a matter of preference by the individual player. To say that Norlin as a class is crap is no better than saying 50's as a class is great. Neither is true - as I will demonstrate. But - I would challenge you to explain how a 50's LP of any quality REALLY sounds/feels $198,000 dollars better than a 70's. caveat: I exclude collecting for the sake of collecting - at which point weirder and rarer will always win.
And the point is what? Lot's of guitars use multi-piece bodies. Everyone says "multi-piece sucks" But has anyone really ever said WHY? No - because there is no reason. Lot's of people dig multi-piece necks. At best the "pancake pushes the mid response a little towards the higher end, IMO. And to ME, that's a good thing. Less mud - more bite. Kinda like the tone of a PG, but built into the guitar. And let's be real. electric guitar tone-wood science art was only a few years old. By the 70's they had 20 more years of experience, and only sincemaybe the mid late 80's have people really been working the wood mojo in a serious way. The point of solid body electrics was production and style. Not "tone" as we over-think it today.
Yeah- because back in the 50's no one ever accidentally let a pup under/over wrap. Hell - no two ever had the SAME wrap! And a number were CRAP (see the rhyme there - heh heh). And - $ per QC issue, I don't think anyone would say today is any better - if that! I seem to remember a Class-five review in GP that had some QC issues. Seems today even their BEST work is suspect. I don't seem to recall any immense quality complaints back then. Bad business practice - yes. Ludicris product creation - yes. In fact, back then, Gibson actually stamped and sold SECONDS. Not done in the 50's or 90's.
In actuality - the number of righteous sounding pups has increased exponentially since the 50's. Again- that by hand crap was hit or miss at best, and we won't even get started with the mags....if you have an amazing 50's pup - great. But there are too few out there to bother hunting. But I can bet any random turd-bucker from the 50's brings a cool 50k! Pup design is another issue - and I'm not even going there. we all know a stock PG, Seth, or any other Duncan sound better and is wayyyyyy moe consistent than anything Gibson had, does or will make.
ever seen an ABR sagging? I have. Nuff said....
Again bich-fest on a whole class of guitars based on a personal preference. Some guys like baseball bats. Some guys like those skinny 60's things. Well good for you. Me - I like something in between. And those were made in the 70s! And, by the way - three piece maple! Stronger and brighter than that solid mahogany crap....I can bend the neck on mine so far it would make you wet your pants. And it snaps right back to where it started!
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
And Gibson today takes every chance to rip you off for a mediocre guitar. And I don't think the guitars were crap. I instead petition that a ton of your favorite tracks and sound from the 70's were made with them, in fact. The "magic of the 59" did not really start happening until well into the 70's. Guess they were just strating to get old enough to sound good....
As did every other American product - See GM/Chrysler for more examples. whatever.
There are a few good guitars fom every era. Most 50's axes are just old tired and beat. The ones that are not aren't 50 times more likely to be awesome. The only way to really ot be influenced by the legend is a blind playing test. ANytime someone can set that up go for it. But time and time again, a $15 bottle of California/Austrailia red shows up and KICKS THE @$$ of the mega french snooty bottle. Happens with firearms, Stereos, you name it.
Just like every vintage fool thinks because it's old and designed using an abacus and put together with stone hammers it's a classic.
Makes me think that you believe YOUR idea of good tone/sound/feel is better than everyone elses...and for the record - I have headstocks that ssay Kaman, Dean, Epiphone, and Gibson. Like I have said in other posts - if it doesn't FEEL good, it's out. I don't care what it sounds like. If it doesn't have the right acoustic response- it's still gone. I have paid 150 to 3k for Les Paul's / LP style guitars. And to ME they are all great. MAybe I'm one of those who doesn't know what good and bad is.
I will never confuse Ace as having great tone, great chops, or great balance. The truth is any of the greats can melt your face off with a Hondo in strat or LP style. It's the player - not the axe.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
I have played and seen 50's Gibsons that were crap, 70's that were crap, and 2000's that were crap. And there are great ones in all of those years too. As I have always said - MY preference is for 3 piece, maple neck, mid profile bright LP's. That's what was around in the 70's. I like hotter pups - so 50's pups to me are just old and tired. late 70's...Dirty Fingers - yeah baby! Or a juicy fat T-top! That's my preference. I can get any guitar I want. I get the one that feels right. If you want to dog a whole decade on principle (or your experience) go right ahead. More opportunity for the rest of us.
Back to a peaceable ending now. I know you don't like 70's LP's. You dig old or repro's. That's cool. I dig lot's of different LP's. But dude - that batch of doo doo above is just that. For the record, though, I enjoyed reading it and it made me smile. Above all I'm a fan of a good spout off! First round of brews is on me!
Hey - at least they didn't pay 50's/60's schmuck prices! 200k for a 58....or even 4k for a r8/9 or 1,500-2k for a 78. Wonderhow the T-tops would sound during that blind test....
Let's see...started playing when you were born....coming up on 30 years...
Didn't start checking out vintage stuff until I was in my 20's honestly. 40 minus 20, let's see that's 20. Hey, isn't that still 5 more years than you've even been playing?
I have played and seen 50's Gibsons that were crap, 70's that were crap, and 2000's that were crap. And there are great ones in all of those years too. As I have always said - MY preference is for 3 piece, maple neck, mid profile bright LP's. That's what was around in the 70's. I like hotter pups - so 50's pups to me are just old and tired. late 70's...Dirty Fingers - yeah baby! Or a juicy fat T-top! That's my preference. I can get any guitar I want. I get the one that feels right. If you want to dog a whole decade on principle (or your experience) go right ahead. More opportunity for the rest of us.
Back to a peaceable ending now. I know you don't like 70's LP's. You dig old or repro's. That's cool. I dig lot's of different LP's. But dude - that batch of doo doo above is just that. For the record, though, I enjoyed reading it and it made me smile. Above all I'm a fan of a good spout off! First round of brews is on me!
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: 70's Era Gibsons
you guys are like little girls arguing about fashion.
beehives and poodle skirts vs. afro's and bell-bottoms...
go play your Les Pauls for those of us who don't have any...
you guys are like little girls arguing about fashion.
beehives and poodle skirts vs. afro's and bell-bottoms...
go play your Les Pauls for those of us who don't have any...