A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

[strings n sax]

I know the pup and magnet swapping subject has been done to death... sorry, in advance! Never done a mag swap but it sounds pretty easy.

Been gigging for decades, always just lived with this, but now I have the time/$ to dig deeper into my tone quest. In essence, I'm trying to get the bridge pup to be more balanced with all the other tones. It's mostly an EQ thing, I think.

I have a 2005 Schecter C-1 Classic with Jazz/JB (and 5 way magaswitch, so 2,3,4 are coil split and series/parallel/series, 1,5 are humbucker). Love everything about the guitar except the JB. I rarely use the bridge pup on it's own as a result. I'm pretty picky about tone (aren't we all?), but I've found that in general, with many guitars except maybe LP, and on this guitar especially, the bridge pup sounds way too thin, and it's shrill too. A lot of other people have said the same thing.

I'll have nice rythym and lead tones, then try a lead on bridge and it's lacking punch and low end. Sure, I could create different patches for that (I'm using SGear now but this is true of any amp I've played too, SS or tube), but I'd rather get the bridge to sound right. But, when I DO create another patch for just the bridge, I typically just add a bit around 200hz, roll off around 4k, and sometimes scoop the mids jjust a hair, or boost a bit depending on what I'm after at the moment. BTW I wish there was a warmth cap or EQ circuit or bass boost or something along those lines for just the one pup Am I crazy... with the 5 way is there a way to add something to the circuit to accomplish that, only when 5 is selected?

OK, that was just a crazy thought. Back to the pup... With this guitar I'm playing mostly classic rock, mostly crunch tones and driven leads... not metal. I'm thinking about trying a magnet swap on the JB ... suggestions as to which? Or, maybe I should just change the pup completely... suggestions? Doesn't matter much to me either way, as long as it does the trick.

From what I've read and heard, it seems like an A8 is the magnet of choice for this setup. But I listened to the comparison tracks, and it didn't seem that much warmer. So that's why I'm thinking to swap the pup.

Appreciate any ideas...

 

[iamthesuck]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

I've had this problem a lot as well. It may be due to the actual bridge. I've tried 3 different pickups in my PRS SE Paul Allender (Stock, Tone Zone, and Alt8) and none of them have cured the thinness of that position. I'll either be putting a Lifer bridge, a Dimarzio Super D, or a Warpig in the bridge but I don't have high hopes.

But now to your options. You'll want something that focuses on the lows-mids. High mids are the frequencies that make it sound thin and harsh; true highs add presence and clarity. From the SD line, the Invader, Custom Custom, Alt 8, P-Rails or P-Rails hot (with the rail away from the bridge, it will warm it up a lot). From the custom shop, if you REALLY want some high output power, the SLUG should do well for you. Everyone who owns it seems to absolutely love it.

Dimarzio has a lot to offer: The Gravity storm would be great for you, the Super Distortion is a classic, Super 3 for SERIOUS metal, or the Breed bridge if I remember right. Dimarzios tend to be geared more towards a warmer, more "modern" tone for metal and shred players. At least their high output options are anyways.

Lastly, the bareknuckle warpig (one I hope to be installing soon in either my warmoth build or the PRS) is a little pricey, but by all accounts is perfect for power, warmth and clarity.

 

[Bigjoedo]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

I would recommend SD P-Rail, Bass, Middle and treble are all the same. A P-rail really tamed a Fender Modern Player Telecaster bridge. I tried several pickups that still had too much treble . I tried a SD Trembucker, JB. I tried a Dimarzio Tonezone which has a lot of Grunt but had too much bass for me. The Tonezone would probably sound great with heavy distortion. Hope this helps.
(I am not an expert, these are trial and error testing and my findings)


Bigjoedo

 

[Clint 55]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

I've tried several bridge humbuckers and the fattest bassiest one has been the Custom 5. Choosing a pickup with as much output and bass as possible and scooped mids will help. Also raising the pickup very close to the strings helps with fullness. Finally, the main problem has to do with the placement of the bridge pickup. The strings just produce shriller tones the closer you get to the bridge. I looked up your guitar and it looks like a nice guitar, you probably don't want to take the router to it, but maybe this info will help for guitars in the future. A difference of a 1/2 inch or less makes a world of difference. I moved my JB from 1 inch away from the bridge which seems standard for most guitars to 1 3/8 inches away from the bridge and it makes it sound fuller, more balanced, yet still trebley like a bridge pup. By the way, I'll get a cleaner pickguard now that I've finalized pup locations. Oh and here's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0NHiglpHBY

 

[ICTGoober]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

Duncans Benedetto B6 pickup - put one in my nephews PRS. He wanted warm and jazzy, and it delivers.

 

[Mincer]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

I haven't been happy with many magnet swaps on the JB. It always sounds like a JB no matter what, but those are my observations. I think you might be happier with something more open, like a Custom.

 

[Demanic]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

I would go with the Alt8, rather than a JB8. The pickup was designed with the A8 magnet in mind and I've never heard mine, in a fairly bright mahogany Ibby, to sound shrill.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

I've known a few C-1 owners that moved to the C5/PGn from the JB/Jazz, and it was what they wanted to hear. It's a consistently good rock set in any LP, PRS, SG, or Schecter. The C5 is like a hot A5 PAF, while the PG is really an all 'round great neck humbucker.

 

[strings n sax]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it... a lot of good ideas here. I'm going to try a mag swap first, I got an A2 and an 8, mostly because I haven't tried a mag swap before, but I don't expect it to make a big difference. I know experimentation is the best route, b/c every guitar/player is different. And yes, no question placement is crucial... after I try the mag swap I think I'll look at the P rails with the rail away from the bridge, I'm thinking that will give me the most warmth, and hopefully it's not too warm. Nice job, Clint! But yeah, a routing job isn't in the cards for this one.

One thing about choosing pups that's been a little frustrating are the tone samples. The EQ charts are pretty straightforward and seem to be a better indicator, and based only on that you'd think an Invader or P Rail, or any pup with lower treble, would be warmer. But I also listened to about 20 different samples with studio headphones, and I could barely hear any difference... only the most extreme opposites had any discernible difference, and even that was extremely subtle. I know SD has been working on that, I know it's probably not easy, but I would suggest that they sort that out. The same exact riffs played on each pup would be really helpful, and info on the guitar it's in and it's specs would be good to know too. Then again, I guess you sell more pups this way... msot of us probably go through a lot of pups before finding what we like. I've also looked at quite a few youtube vids, but havne't seen any that cover a lot of pups or go into depth, and the recording process is pretty variable.

Anyway, it's all good... thanks again! I'll report back when I make the swap... but I have to wait a few weeks until I get a lull in the gig schedule.

 

[iamthesuck]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryzie8mham8
skip to 11:29 and you'll hear the guitar alone. Great comparison, I can hear differences with my laptop speakers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbRlcdNHYDM
Same story, updated with newer duncans

 

[Jocelyn]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

Finally, the main problem has to do with the placement of the bridge pickup. The strings just produce shriller tones the closer you get to the bridge. I looked up your guitar and it looks like a nice guitar, you probably don't want to take the router to it, but maybe this info will help for guitars in the future. A difference of a 1/2 inch or less makes a world of difference. I moved my JB from 1 inch away from the bridge which seems standard for most guitars to 1 3/8 inches away from the bridge and it makes it sound fuller, more balanced, yet still trebley like a bridge pup. View attachment 75820 By the way, I'll get a cleaner pickguard now that I've finalized pup locations.

View attachment 75964View attachment 75965 I second this. This flying V styled guitar has the pickup slightly more away from the bridge than usual and gives me a warmer tone. I had JB in their before and it was warm. The JB went to a Ibby SA. I know have duncan designed JB 102 in it. Still nice and warm. I can't get the pickup any more closer to the bridge without hacking some wood.

Sent from my SM-J200G using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it... a lot of good ideas here. I'm going to try a mag swap first, I got an A2 and an 8, mostly because I haven't tried a mag swap before, but I don't expect it to make a big difference. I know experimentation is the best route, b/c every guitar/player is different. And yes, no question placement is crucial... after I try the mag swap I think I'll look at the P rails with the rail away from the bridge, I'm thinking that will give me the most warmth, and hopefully it's not too warm. Nice job, Clint! But yeah, a routing job isn't in the cards for this one.

One thing about choosing pups that's been a little frustrating are the tone samples. The EQ charts are pretty straightforward and seem to be a better indicator, and based only on that you'd think an Invader or P Rail, or any pup with lower treble, would be warmer. But I also listened to about 20 different samples with studio headphones, and I could barely hear any difference... only the most extreme opposites had any discernible difference, and even that was extremely subtle. I know SD has been working on that, I know it's probably not easy, but I would suggest that they sort that out. The same exact riffs played on each pup would be really helpful, and info on the guitar it's in and it's specs would be good to know too. Then again, I guess you sell more pups this way... msot of us probably go through a lot of pups before finding what we like. I've also looked at quite a few youtube vids, but havne't seen any that cover a lot of pups or go into depth, and the recording process is pretty variable.

Anyway, it's all good... thanks again! I'll report back when I make the swap... but I have to wait a few weeks until I get a lull in the gig schedule.

Well, this is a problem we all face when choosing pickups. At some point, there is a choice to be made. There are problems with graphs, and with videos and soundclips. No one knows what an unknown pickup will sound like in your guitar, with your gear, with you playing. So we have to make an educated choice based on everything we have. Just try to buy from a retailer with a good return policy, or take advantage of the 21 Day Exchange Policy (in the US).

 

[strings n sax]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

Anyway, it's all good... thanks again! I'll report back when I make the swap... but I have to wait a few weeks until I get a lull in the gig schedule.

OK, took me a while to finally get around to this, and here are my results. BTW I recorded it before the mag swaps, and then recorded after, carefully analyzing and keeping all other variables exactly the same.

I ended up with a roughcast Alnico 2 in the JB, and it did the trick for me. Definitely subtle, but it did fatten it up just a bit, and probably tamed the high end a bit... and it doesnt' "quack" or bite nearly as much as before. I could almost convince myself that there's a touch more clarity, but it's too subtle to tell. More importantly, I'm a lot happier using all 5 switch positions now, and can now use the bridge by itself without sounding too thin, which was my main complaint before.

One happy accident is that the 3 split coil positions (2-4) sound much more single coil-ish and strat-like, yet of course not entirely like a strat. I'm really digging it for now, it's a bit of a unique tone. I'm guessing that the roughcast may have something to do with that, but who knows.

FWIW I also tried reversing the polarity of the mag and damn, that's crazy fat on bridge-only. Not practical b/c you of course get hyper thin tone on any pup combination position, but on it's own it was pretty awesome. Interesting.

Well, again, thanks for all the ideas. At some point when I start to get bored with this tone, I'll try some of the pickup suggestions. My son just tried a Loller in his Tele and loves it, so maybe I'll check that out too. Ahh, so many mods, so little time...

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

FWIW I also tried reversing the polarity of the mag and damn, that's crazy fat on bridge-only. Not practical b/c you of course get hyper thin tone on any pup combination position, but on it's own it was pretty awesome. Interesting.

I'm surprised that reversing the mag made such a big difference to the bridge pickup by itself. Hadn't realized that mag orientation can be important to the natural tone of some pickups- I'd only been thinking about polarity in terms of hum rejection when combining coils between different pickups.

Is it unusual for flipping the magnet to change the tone of a humbucker radically?
Or is that normal, just a bit of common knowledge that I never knew?

 

[strings n sax]

Re: A bridge pup with warmth and fat bass? For Schecter C-1 Classic?

I think that's normal... I'd seen a few articles on flipping the mag before, it seems like quite a few people have tried it...but I hadn't actually heard a demo of it. Or maybe it's the combination of the roughcast and flipping it. But there's this:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?201509-Reverse-Polarity-Pickups

It also got me thinking about a polarity/phase switch... haven't read up on whether that will do the same thing, or even work. But it could be interesting.