A dumb question - JB/Distortion hybrid?

[Clint 55]

Very cool. I think this Brute Force neck model would be in the same neighborhood. What coils and magnet did you use for that? Or did you put both hybrids together?

I hybrid'd a Distortion neck and a JB and used it as a bridge pickup. I decided to go for a lower heat coil because there's plenty of heat with the double thick magnets I use. I think I went with double thick UOA5.

I'm sure a regular Distortion bridge and a JB would work well though.

I enjoy making hybrids and I like both pickups and their intricacies so it was a no brainer to try a hybrid.

 

[Artie]

JB and Distortion are the same coils. It will simply become whichever mag you select. You can't do a JB/Distortion hybrid.

 

[Seashore]

JB and Distortion are the same coils. It will simply become whichever mag you select. You can't do a JB/Distortion hybrid.

Are they exactly the same wind? I don't know anything about it other than what I can find on here. Their resistance specs are different on the website - close but not the same (JB at 16.4k, Distortion at 16.6k for the six string models) and I've read other posts here on the forum that say the winds are not identical. Would those resistance differences be within tolerance for two instances of the same wind?

 

[Seashore]

I should shut my damn mouth. I won't ever say this again. In an mIRC chat, many moons ago, a Duncan employee said, . . . the coils come off the machine. Some go to JB's, and some go to Distortions. She got spanked for saying that. She's no longer with the company.

I'll never say this again.

In that case, it's excellent info to have and I'll plan any further tinkering around things that'll actually make a difference. Thank you!

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Gonna throw a curve ball now, then. How about a JB (or Distortion)/Black Winter Hybrid? Same DCR, just different insulation to the wire.

 

[GuitarStv]

Gonna throw a curve ball now, then. How about a JB (or Distortion)/Black Winter Hybrid? Same DCR, just different insulation to the wire.

Isn't that Dimarzio's 'dual resonance' thing? Two coils with different wire gauges but the same DCR?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Isn't that Dimarzio's 'dual resonance' thing? Two coils with different wire gauges but the same DCR?

But the Black Winter and Distortion/JB have the same wire gauge, just different insulations.

 

[Clint 55]

In that case, it's excellent info to have and I'll plan any further tinkering around things that'll actually make a difference. Thank you!

It's false info. The Distortion and JB are different coils. The easiest way to hear it is to spend time with an A5 Distortion. Super easy to hear.

Gonna throw a curve ball now, then. How about a JB (or Distortion)/Black Winter Hybrid? Same DCR, just different insulation to the wire.

And different winds.. I'm sure a JB / Black Winter hybrid would sound cool. The 2 sound extremely different but might compliment each other.

 

[Gabrielinconfident]

I've got a JB in one of my Gibsons and a Distortion that's been in a few guitars. 7-string models. Both good, both very close to being ideal, but I wish they had a little more of an open dynamic feel and more harmonic complexity. Most of my favorite pickups have some offset between the coils, and I have an uneducated hunch that that's part of what makes them feel more open and responsive to me. Would it be worth taking these apart to create two JB/Distortion hybrids, keeping in mind that the differences I'm looking for are pretty subtle? Has anybody done this? Or is this just a fool's errand, not giving me the results I'd want, not worth ruining two good pickups over?

You do realise the JB and Duncan Distortion are the same exact pickup with different magnets, right?

 

[beaubrummels]

You do realise the JB and Duncan Distortion are the same exact pickup with different magnets, right?

I believe that to be false myself.

First, a statement from a former employee
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...-with-different-magnets?p=5313591#post5313591

Then someone who actually disassembled and measured the differences between the two
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...the-same-pup-except-mag?p=3744010#post3744010

Someone else who measured the differences
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...jb-and-distortion-winds?p=5675962#post5675962

 

[Seashore]

You do realise the JB and Duncan Distortion are the same exact pickup with different magnets, right?

​​​​​​
No, I don't. That's why I asked. I've come across a bunch of posts saying what you're saying, and a bunch of other posts saying the winds are just a bit different. The listed resistance specs on the website are a little different. If they're a little different in the real world then it would be cool for me to hear the mismatch, and if they aren't then I would have an answer of a different sort. I'm curious enough about it to want to hear and feel it through my own rig. But practically speaking, this time around, I was also looking for a bridge pickup in my Gibson that makes me just a little bit happier, which I ended up with by going a different route. I do think Artie is a credible source and I imagine based on what he says that the JB/Distortion project might be a waste of time, but I'll never really know until I try.

 

[Seashore]

I believe that to be false myself.

First, a statement from a former employee
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...-with-different-magnets?p=5313591#post5313591

Then someone who actually disassembled and measured the differences between the two
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...the-same-pup-except-mag?p=3744010#post3744010

Someone else who measured the differences
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...jb-and-distortion-winds?p=5675962#post5675962

I wanna say that I'm really, really not after trade secrets or trying to open a can of worms with this. I've also read that they vary their recipe to achieve the same results with slightly different materials, as suppliers change, so I wonder if some of those differences could be down to just having pickups from a different batch even if they do make them side by side. In which case, heck, maybe it would be worth trying after all.

I appreciate all the links you've shared, cheers.

 

[Gabrielinconfident]

I believe that to be false myself.

First, a statement from a former employee
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...-with-different-magnets?p=5313591#post5313591

Then someone who actually disassembled and measured the differences between the two
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...the-same-pup-except-mag?p=3744010#post3744010

Someone else who measured the differences
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...jb-and-distortion-winds?p=5675962#post5675962

"The company *has not confirmed this to be false*, to my knowledge, anywhere on the internet." – that's what Falbo said. He didn't deny it, quite the contrary.

I once ordered a custom shop DD with Alnico II on the 3 treble strings, and during the design phase, it was mentioned that if I chose A5, it'd be a DD/JB hybrid, because they're the same coils. To be completely honest, I don't remember if it was me or them who mentioned it – it was years ago – but it was a consensus. MJ built the pickup for me, and I still have it. It's weird that it suddenly became controversial to say it, but yeah, they're the same. Any minor differences can be attributed to material tolerances over the (40?) years those pickups have been manufactured.

 

[Clint 55]

If you're not deaf, they're different coils. One of my favorite pickups is a Distortion with an alnico magnet in it. I've spent a lot of time with an A5 Distortion which is NOT a JB.

 

[Gabrielinconfident]

The listed resistance specs on the website are a little different.

No, they're the exact same. See attachments.

I was also looking for a bridge pickup in my Gibson that makes me just a little bit happier, which I ended up with by going a different route.

There's so many options, I wouldn't know where to begin helping. But if you already replaced your pickup and are happy with it, great. I just don't want you to waste time doing something that's a lot of work and wouldn't really change anything.
If you really do want a Distortion/JB hybrid, contact the Custom Shop and request a Distortion with Ceramic on the 3 bottom strings, and Alnico 5 on the 3 top ones. They can definitely do it, and it'll sound great.

 

[frankfalbo]

The most fun part about this conversation is there is an absolute. So I often advise everyone not to be too attached to your opinion on the matter.

 

[Clint 55]

They're different coils. I've spent time with an A5 DD.

 

[Seashore]

No, they're the exact same. See attachments.



There's so many options, I wouldn't know where to begin helping. But if you already replaced your pickup and are happy with it, great. I just don't want you to waste time doing something that's a lot of work and wouldn't really change anything.
If you really do want a Distortion/JB hybrid, contact the Custom Shop and request a Distortion with Ceramic on the 3 bottom strings, and Alnico 5 on the 3 top ones. They can definitely do it, and it'll sound great.

This chart on the website has the 6 string JB at 16.4k and the Distortion at 16.6k:

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/pickup-comparison-chart



The JB and Distortion I have right now are both 7-string models. The 7-string JB isn't on the list... no big deal, the list was just one of a few data points that made me think it might be worth a shot. The Distortion is in one of those soapbar covers and sounds great where it is, so I don't really want to take it all apart. But getting something even slightly more open out of my JB would be worth it because that's the guitar I play all the time.

In this case I wound up making a hybrid out of the JB and a BKP Brute Force neck pickup with a messed up baseplate that I had sitting in a box. I'm psyched; it's what I hoped I would get out of this experiment. Really a joy to play through. And I don't mind spending a few hours working on it either way because I'll learn something from it. I like the dual magnet idea! Would be interested to hear how that sounds vs the more common alnico bar/ceramic flanker or ceramic bar/alnico slug recipes. Thank you for sharing your experience with it.

 

[Gabrielinconfident]

This chart on the website has the 6 string JB at 16.4k and the Distortion at 16.6k:

A little variance – especially a 0.2kΩ one – is to be expected, even between different units of the same model; it's within tolerance of the wire. On the model page of the JB, it lists 16.6kΩ. Also, the magnet itself exerts some force on the electrons, and ceramics are stronger magnets than alnico, which means a ceramic pickup can have a tiny bit more resistance than the same coils with an alnico bar. Very small, but sometimes measurable. There's a maniac who made a youtube video testing literally dozens of Celestion V30s, and they each sound slightly different. Speakers are just pickups in reverse, so it's a good way to hear how just material tolerance, batch, age, etc. can influence the sound.

Anyway, I'm happy you're happy with what you got. If you've got a sound sample, please share, I'm curious.

 

[Aceman]

JB and Distortion are the same coils. It will simply become whichever mag you select. You can't do a JB/Distortion hybrid.

That's what I said in post #2 Artie. Not exactly the same but close enough tonally. But everyone is all "How amazeballs!" the hybrid is, even though they are using single ceramic mags, UAO5's blah blah blah. I agree - the magnet will drive the sound more than anything.

And of course the Coil mis-match chat. I had a long talk with a couple of people at Duncan about this and got educated. To hear a coil mis-match, they need to be really different.

So un-scientiffic it is sad....