A Question For Bedroom Players.

El Dunco

Sock Supplier to RHCP
Before I begin, I had better make it clear that this isn't having a go or making fun or anyone for any reason. I have no issue with whatever people do with their guitar playing. It's your gear, your time, you do what you like. This is simply about difference in perspective. I've had the "just get it sounding good, shut up and do the show/record" mentality drilled into me from the beginning and finding the best tone I can is always in the context of public performances and releases and stuff. So anyway, if you're a bedroom player and you find the perfect tone, what do you do with it? Do you simply enjoy it like a cake? Do you eventually get bored with it and want to try something else? Is it like the mandalas the Tibetan monks who destroy them and start over? Is it an abstract concept that can never be achieved like perfection? Discuss.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I'm a fill-in/session guitarist these days. I get called in to perform with others; I'm not in my own band. I closed my studio, so I have to practice for these shows at home now. But that means I need to replicate my live tone at lower levels so that I'm still 'training' my hands to perform how they need to work on stage against the amp. So I need the same tone and response from distorted to clean to do that.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

Ironically, the best tone I got was out of a Mesa Boogie F100 with a DG Stomp going through the effects loop. By far the best tone I ever had. I never wanted to shift the Boogie so I usually had a smaller amp live, which was unable to reproduce anything like that tone. I've since broke up the F100 DG Stomp combo and run the Stomp through a different amp. However, I know, push or by shove, that I could get that tone again with a few hours of fiddling.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I play at the house with no band
no real live shows

sometimes jam with friends but not a Paying gig

I find a sound like I just stop fiddling with knobs

If I want something else, I use pedals and what-not to change the sound
but if I want that amp tone, I know I can just snatch the cables out
and there's the amp tone I like
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I practice in the bedroom and do some paying gigs when my schedule allows.

My tone is about 90% amp in both situations. Guitar--> MXR Classic Overdrive--> Amp. Now, depending on which amp and which guitar I use and where I use it, the settings vary, but the sound is consistent to me.

I own a Peavey XXL solid state 2x12 combo amp. Best solid state I've ever played in my life. Which is why I usually choose it over my Peavey 6534+ and a 4x12 cab. It sounds almost as good and is less stuff to carry. I only break out the tube amp when I know I'm gonna be playing in one of the good venues around town and booze isn't gonna get sprayed all over it.

Nobody but me is going to know the difference because nobody but me is paying attention to the actual tone unless it's a ****ty tone.

Generally speaking, I do have to dial in a bit more bass and midrange on the XXL when I take it to gig. I haven't decided if it's because of the classic solid state problem they get when you turn them up or if it's the Dome sions of my bedroom at home.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

Myself, I'm a home studio player.

Being I'm 46 and have "been there done that" already waaay back in the late 80s-early 90s, I don't want to drag my valuable gear around town doing gigs and risk getting it stolen.

That being said, being a budding sound engineer tends to find me at home studying various players' songs, styles & tones and learning new
recording/mixing techniques and playing with new toys and VSTs. On a rare occasion I will do a session part or a gig for a friend.

The music biz is a joke today anyways, and the big dream of getting an album deal, touring, doing your MTV video and raking in millions is long gone.

Besides, you don't really need any of that thanks to the internet and computers; you can cut your own album and promote it yourself.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

So anyway, if you're a bedroom player and you find the perfect tone, what do you do with it?

I try to enjoy it while it lasts. IMO, "perfect" is as much mental as it is physical and it never lasts. Stuff that I would never notice when I'm in a mix is plain as day when I'm playing solo and it's much easier to obsess over the minute details when I'm not focused on performing. Something that sounds "perfect" for one riff might sound off for another riff, and if you're not careful you can wind up chasing your own tail, particularly when there's no one else there to pressure you to move on to the next song.
 
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Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I try to enjoy it while it lasts. IMO, "perfect" is as much mental as it is physical and it never lasts. Stuff that I would never notice when I'm in a mix is plain as day when I'm playing solo and it's much easier to obsess over the minute details when I'm not focused on performing. Something that sounds "perfect" for one riff might sound off for another riff, and if you're not careful you can wind up chasing your own tail, particularly when there's no one else there to pressure you to move on to the next song.

As a hobbyist who just plays for fun (alone, these days), I can tell you that this is my life.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

As a hobbyist who just plays for fun (alone, these days), I can tell you that this is my life.

I've spent too many days where I play the same riff for well over an hour while changing settings and swapping gear. I think it's why you see so many guys with a bedroom that's better kitted out than their local GC while there's guys that tour for decades and the only reason they have two of anything is for backup.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I've spent too many days where I play the same riff for well over an hour while changing settings and swapping gear. I think it's why you see so many guys with a bedroom that's better kitted out than their local GC while there's guys that tour for decades and the only reason they have two of anything is for backup.

And that's the difference between doing research and getting down to work.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

Being a bedroom player is really no different (to me) than playing in a band. One tweaks their gear at home until it sounds perfect for that day. One tweaks their gear in a live setting as well until it sounds good to that ears for that day. Pretty much the only difference is you're tweaking it for your ears to either sit alone, or in a live band mix.

My ears change from day to day it seems. A lot of it may have to do with the fact that I work with a loud machine right next to me, although I do wear earplugs while working. For the most part, I keep pretty much everything on my amps right around the 6-7 mark. Some days I feel like there is a little too much Presence, so I back that off a tad. Some days I feel I have too much mids or highs, and I back them off a tad.

At the end of the day, I think every guitar player has found "their" perfect tone many many times, but it just wasn't good enough and they kept on doing this, that, or the other to try and make it better.

To me it's kind of like the old adage that many women have said about a man that has never been married. He had the perfect woman, but apparently she wasn't good enough, so he's kept on looking for the next best one ever since.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I should also add, I think a lot of finding the perfect tone only works with what you may be playing at that time. Van Halen II has the absolute perfect tone for that album, but there's no way in hell that I could hear that tone working on Fair Warning.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

When I had pedals, I was always changing settings to try to match the various tones of the various albums and tapes I played along with: Priest, Maiden, Sabbath, Alice Cooper, AC/DC, ZZ Top, Kiss, Crue, on and on. Obviously you can only get within basic range with only a few pedals, mostly around the mids and highs and the gain saturation.

My first rack was a GSP21 Pro. I maxed out the 128 user presets easily just with copping the tones of others as best I could.

Going through that process made me realize that just because a particular player is only going straight into the amp doesn't mean that's what ends up on tape. The engineer has to mix those tones with the vocals and drums and bass and whatever else. Then there's double-tracking in the studio, sometimes with slightly different tones, which can't be replicated live where the massive volume fills in those gaps.

Once I got a drum machine and a bass and started recording my own stuff, I had to figure out how to mix my guitar tones to fit in with the various drum tones of the machine, which themselves had a wide range. Some sounded like rubber, some sounded loose, some sounded deep and boomy, while others just sounded like a kitchen cabinet door.

The 4-track cassette unit I had did not allow for EQing a track after it was recorded, only during playback, so if something didn't quite fit, I had to redo the whole thing.

Eventually I was able to build a few presets that gave me tones that did not need post-work.

Once I got in a band, and the drummer had his entire kit miked and running through a mixer, he was impressed that I could just plug my rack straight into the board or a power amp and cab and not need any tweaks. Once we started recording our own stuff, I spent more time mixing vocals and bass than guitar and drums.

These many years later I've got more rack gear - ADA MP-1 into a Digitech TSR-12 for tone-shaping EQ and effects, GSP1101, the GSP21 Pro and a GSP21 Legend.
Once I got the MP-1, I used that for the preamp and the GSP21 for effects, but because of how it was laid out in the software, I couldn't use its EQ. That's when I got the TSR-12.

At first I was trying to use the MP-1's 3-band EQ in conjunction with the TSR's EQ, and had them MIDIed together so that this patch on one called that patch on the other and back and forth and so on, but eventually just set the MP-1 EQ flat and did all the heavy work in the TSR. I've got 10 patches in the MP-1 that run from crystal clean to "everything on 10", and I can step through those 10 patches to get everything in between. Whether it sounds like Maiden or Metallica is determined by the EQ in the TSR. It's a lot easier to keep track of them that way, but I still have to keep them MIDI linked, since I may just need the same tones with more/less gain.

Lately I've been working with the JCM800 head I got a couple of years ago and pedals, and while I've been able to get good useable tones from it, I'm slowly resigning myself to the fact that those tones are nowhere near as versatile as my rack. At times I consider just running my rack into the power section, but then if I'm going to do that, the head is useless and I may as well just get a rack power amp. I have to keep telling myself I got a Marshall for the Marshall tone, not just so I can say I got a Marshall.

I also picked up a TripleRec head sometime last year, so now at least I can get the majority of Metal tones with just those two.

But, I'm not always able to run the heads, which is a drag, so I've gone back to my racks for instant gratification. I thought that perhaps after spending more time with the heads that I might find my rack tones lacking, but I don't, which lets me know that I either did a great job of setting up the racks or I totally suck as dialing in 6 knobs on an amp :lol:

As for what I do with the tones, as I said, with 128 preset slots, I don't have to overwrite anything and lose it forever. I can get a wide range of tones in just 10 patches from as clean as can be to "too much gain" and another 128 variations of each one with EQ settings.

My original material dabbles in various styles, and so one tone does not fit all those styles. I've got a "Santana" tone I use for a couple of tracks and a "Satch" tone I use on something else. It's not just the EQ but the gain difference as well. I also tend to change drum tones in BFD, depending on if I'm doing something a little more Metal or a little more mellow, so the guitar tones have to mix well right out of the box.

I do not believe in post-production. If you spend the time to get it "right" going in, you have much less work to do when it comes out. While a session player is obviously not afforded the time to tweak their tone endlessly, and that is the engineer's job, I'm not under those constraints. Were I to enter a studio to record my stuff professionally, the engineer would have little to do other than make sure the tracks are lit and the Record button gets pushed.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I have my amp set up the same way it was when I used to gig. Unfortunately, I've just begun exploring the whole 'fuzz' thing, which completely changes everything, so if I ever did get back in a band, there'd be one hell of a relearning curve.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I used to be in bands but I haven't been on stage since 2007.
I am constantly playing with tones and stomp boxes. Just because I'm a bedroom player doesn't mean I can't get creative. I find a sound that inspires me and I jam on it.
I'm also into studying theory again so I am taking a lot of lessons now.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I think I might've played my last real gig last month. Now I'm gonna focus on recording. IMO, that's a bigger deal from a tone standpoint since there's an objective record of how you sound. :)
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

Now I'm gonna focus on recording. IMO, that's a bigger deal from a tone standpoint since there's an objective record of how you sound. :)

That's where I am. Let's just say I'm trying to record a promotional CD ... one that will interest prospective band mates first and then the people responsible for booking venues. I have no aspirations of "making it big", but I want to (and expect to) get paid to play. I will play music for free no matter what, and have for years, but when I start having to load and unload equipment someone will have to pay me.

My "perfect" tone does not translate well to recording. Maybe it is my inexperience as a recording engineer. Live it is harmonically rich and fun to play with because there is plenty of sustain and the harmonics jump. When I hear that tone recorded it sounds distant, over-compressed, and honky.

So I'm back to square one. I have another lead tone I can live with, but I have to wait almost a week to play it loud enough to record it. By the way, my ultimate lead tone is surely locked up in an amp I don't own. Mine is mediocre and as a result my tones must be derived from a combination of pedals. The new magic starts with a Strat with a P-90 in the bridge, but in the notch position combining the P-90 with the middle single coil, tone rolled back very slightly, into a Wampler Euphoria ... mostly volume with gain only around 9 - into a Skreddy P19 fuzz through a Belle Epock delay into my amp.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

I just cart my amp with my 'bedroom' settings along to the venue. Normally, All I do thats different at a gig is turn the bass down a bit & crank the volume..

Then reverse it again when I get home.. :laugh2:
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

This is a great thread.

I have a 1/2 stack I made, well,, I made it to resemble an old 60's Marshall cabinet ( metal handles, lots of insulation, Two G12m-20 heritage speakers and a couple old blackbacks, and a new birch Ply back on old JCM800 cabinet ), and I have a cool old Canadian Traynor Bassmanesque/ JTM45 amp. It gets very good cleans and edge of breakup tone , but sounds good too with a old Screamer type pedal pushing it some, so I play that , well, not "bedroom", but 'living room'/Den volume.
 
Re: A Question For Bedroom Players.

5 watt Jet City Picovalve through a 1x12 closed cab with a CRex. 'Course the bedroom is in a well insulated house in a neighborhood where the neighbors are neighborly. The big rig is a 100 watt Carvin X-amp 3/4 stack with a Randall RG-100es half stack slaved to it. I adjust the settings accordingly.
 
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