A2P sounding thin....

Nem

Nem

New member
does it matter which way around the humbucker is in the guitar?
cos theres a problem with my bridge pickup, it sounds very very thin and nothing like an A2P is meant to. ive adjusted the height but it doesnt matter where it goes it doesnt sound like it should :(

ive always had this problem and i tried finding someone to fix it but the guitar store dont do pickup installations
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

Nem said:
does it matter which way around the humbucker is in the guitar?
cos theres a problem with my bridge pickup, it sounds very very thin and nothing like an A2P is meant to. ive adjusted the height but it doesnt matter where it goes it doesnt sound like it should :(

ive always had this problem and i tried finding someone to fix it but the guitar store dont do pickup installations
Click to expand...

So you have a bridge pup with the screw bobbin closest to the neck?

It shouldn't matter....on most pups the A2P has symetical coils so it shouldn't on it. Not to insult your intelligence but are you sure it's wired correctly my A2P sounds anything BUT thin.

Luke
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

As PAF-clone humbuckers go, it's a pretty full sounding pickup, pleasingly plump I like to say. But if the A2P replaced a high output metal-type pickup (say, 14k ohms with Alnico 5 or ceramic magnet), it's definitely going to sound thinner.

But I'm confused -- if the guitar already has the A2P in it, why do you need to "install" it? Did it come with the guitar originally or was it put in later, and who did it? Does it have a 4-conductor lead with the black plastic insulation on the outside or is it a 2-conductor with a braided metal shield on the outside and one wire coming out of the center?

The reason I ask these things is it may be wired wrong. If it's a 4-conductor it may have been wired in such a way that only one of the two coils is in the circuit, which would definitely sound thin.

Turning the pickup around would probably make it sound a little heavier because the adjustable poles are probably set a bit above the surface of the bobbin while the slugs are not, and turning it around would put the adjustable screws under a harmonic node that has more beef. But it wouldn't make nearly enough of a difference to fix what you're describing.

Another thing to consider is turning your A2P in to an A5P by replacing the Alnico 2 magnet in it with an Alnico 5. That will make a pretty significant difference in how beefy it is.

Another move that will add beef to any pickup is shortening the adjustable pole pieces by about 1/8th of an inch -- or more if you prefer. The theory is that the shorter pole pieces don't extend the magnetic field as much below the pickup so the field is more concentrated in and above the pickup. All I know is that I laughed at this idea for years until I tried it and -- Voila! Instant BEEF, especially if you combine it with an Alnico 5 magnet.
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

Zhangliqun said:
Another move that will add beef to any pickup is shortening the adjustable pole pieces by about 1/8th of an inch -- or more if you prefer. The theory is that the shorter pole pieces don't extend the magnetic field as much below the pickup so the field is more concentrated in and above the pickup. All I know is that I laughed at this idea for years until I tried it and -- Voila! Instant BEEF, especially if you combine it with an Alnico 5 magnet.
Click to expand...

Now that's interesting, and makes some sense as well.

Luke
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

Trust me, it works. The beauty of it is you get more beef without losing any top end clarity because the resonant peak stays the same because there's no change to the coil.

The other cool thing is that you can "tune" your pole pieces individually. Maybe you like the way the G-string sounds but the B and high E sound a little thin, so you shorten only the B and high E pole pieces. Maybe the B sounds thin but not as thin as the high E, so you don't shorten the B pole piece quite as much as the high E pole piece, etc. You get the idea...
 
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Re: A2P sounding thin....

No, just a big metal file. It takes a while, but that's not such a bad thing because you can grind it a bit at a time, screw it back into the pickup and play a few notes and decide if you need to grind further.

Wire cutters aren't strong enough and even if they were, they would distort the end of the pole piece and make it hard to impossible to screw it back in.

You could put a grinder wheel on a Dremel to do it faster and with less wear and tear on your hands, but to me that's a little too fast -- would be too easy to grind too much off and grind it past the "sweet spot".

The ideal thing to do would be to take a day and grind 50 or 100 pole pieces to various lengths so you could just have them immediately available in all sizes to pop into your pickup whenever you felt like it. (Haven't gotten around to that yet...)
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

Zhangliqun said:
Wire cutters aren't strong enough and even if they were, they would distort the end of the pole piece and make it hard to impossible to screw it back in.
Click to expand...

That's the exact reason I asked! :laugh2:
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

wired incorrectly? well my friend did it for me and he said he knew what he was doing :S

but i dunno, i know the A2p should sound a LOT beefier than it does atm. so how is that pickup meant to be wired? are there any diagrams online for this particular pickup with a 3 way blade switch (it has 8 terminals)?.... its a 4 conductor pickup so its possible only one of the 2 coils are active

ive also heard people mention that my pickup is out of phase? what does this mean? and is it a possible explanation?
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

this is what the wiring looks like atm:

wiring.jpg


i assume theres something wrong with it because the green wire (ground?) is going to the switch?

EDIT: now that i look at the wiring i remember that he said something about having to wire it a bit differently because he reversed a magnet or something to make sure that when both pickups are used its still humcancelling....any sense in that? and does that justify the wiring?
 
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Re: A2P sounding thin....

OK, if you need it to be the same phase as your neck pickup, take the shield and black and solder those to ground. Red and white will be soldered together and taped off. The green wire will act as your hot and should go to the switch. This should give you standard humbucking operation and should be in phase with your current pickup. If it's out of phase with this wiring, just switch the black and green wires.
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

well i tried both, and altho having the black go to switch does make it sound better, it still has a bit of a shrill cold side to it....any other suggestions?
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

here, have a listen:

Neck:
http://www.metallica.plus.com/music/neck.mp3

Bridge:
http://www.metallica.plus.com/music/bridge.mp3

and atm the green and bare are earthed and black is going to the switch on both pickups. i cant make the pickup go any closer to the strings, theres only about half a cm between them now...

the bridge still sounds a little thin but admittedley a LOT better than before

is it meant to sound this way? cos to me it still sounds a little bit off?
 
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Re: A2P sounding thin....

Maybe it's just me, buy I've always heard that the A2Pro bridge is a little on the thin side.
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

What kind of neck pup do you have?

Are the red and white soldered, or twisted together and taped off?

Luke
 
Re: A2P sounding thin....

the neck is an A2P as well

and the red and white are soldered together and taped off

btw the screws on both pickups are on the bridge side, but im not sure that would make a difference....
 
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Re: A2P sounding thin....

Nem said:
the neck is an A2P as well

and the red and white are soldered together and taped off
Click to expand...

Ok if your buddy DID indeed flip your magnet in the bridge it is now out of phase with the neck pup. Try this, Get a magnet (any will do) and make a mark on one side. Put that side up and put it on the screw coil of the neck pup. Remember how the magnet reacts, whether it flips over, or pulls down. Then do the same thing with the bridge pup, if they do NOT have the same polarity un-wire your bridge pup, carefully take off the tape, loosen the 4 screws on the bottom, and flip the magnet. Hit the pup with a hair dryer afterwards to reset the wax. Now rewire your pup to the normal specs.

Nem said:
btw the screws on both pickups are on the bridge side, but im not sure that would make a difference....
Click to expand...

It will make the neck pup sound slightly brighter, because the screw coil is dominant due to its height.

After you get your wiring straight screw all your polpieces down to where it looks like it did from the factory, then raise it up slowly till it is 1-2mm from the strings.

What kind of guitar is this anyways, maybe we can find a schematic for you.

Luke
 
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