A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

[crusty philtrum]

Hi everyone

I have built a pair of Custom/59 A5 hybrid bridge pickups, and am about to make a pair of 59/Jazz A5 neck hybrids to go with them.

I plan to put one set into the guitar in the pic here, which is a Hamer Studio Custom (USA) which I purchased recently, ( mahogany with maple cap), that currently has it's stock 59's. The pickups will have nickel silver covers.

I have bought some A3 magnets to use in at least one pair of the hybrids. I have noticed the talk of magnets is usually about A2 and A5, and in recent times, A8. Ocassionally A4 seems gets a mention, but rarely do i see much written about A3.

My original thoughts were that the A3 might give me something like an A2 with a little bit more lows and highs (or a LITTLE less mids) and just a bit 'tighter', but more 'vintage' sounding than the A5.

All the pickups will have covers, and even though magnet swapping is not too difficult, I'd like to minimise the ammount of times i might have to be pulling things apart, so....

Am I on the right track? Anyone have any experience with A3 who can share their thoughts? Are there reasons why the A3 is not often used?

cheers, look forward to hearing what you may have to say.....


(BTW.....if you ever consider the hybrids.....GO FOR IT !!! they make every other pickup sound bland by comparrison....)

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

A3's are used fairly frequently, depending on the maker. The Eric Johnson sig Strat uses A3 rods. Voodoo uses A3's for their humbuckers.

Your description of A3's tone is pretty much on, except I don't think it has any more bass than A2. To my ear it's like A2 with more sparkle and even a tiny touch of bite. I have an A3 bar in my Custom Custom and it adds some sparkle and shimmer to it.

I have heard that Fralin said sometimes A3 doesn't hold a charge as well as he'd like, but I haven't had any problems with it.

 

[jeremy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

i agree with what zhang said. its like alnico II but with a touch cleaner bottom and more top, slightly less output to my ears. i havent had any issues with it holding a charge either but ive been using a3 for less than a year

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

...slightly less output to my ears.

I'll go along with that too.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

hi

thanks for these responses, they are very illuminating

i was just reading the reviews of Voodoo humbuckers at HC, and i get the impression that a lot of their sets use A3 for the neck and A5 for the bridge. Barely a bad word was written about these pickups, usually installed in Gibson style instruments.

My thoughts on the A5 in the 59/Custom bridge hybrid is that it really has that early Van Halen thing going on, but i would like to make one guitar perhaps a little less full on in the bridge pup....perhaps a bit more Paul Kossoff, a bit less Eddie. I am thinking possibly both the neck hybrids (59/Jazz) could be A3 and then one guitar could have an A3 bridge, the other an A5.

I am a little concerned about the lower output... Lower than A2? I have not used an A2 humbucker that i know of....is it a substantial loss compared to A5? Do you think the different magnet types will affect the wonderful complexity of the hybrids' sound in any way?

i am much appreciating the input, guys (or is that 'output'....)

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

I am a little concerned about the lower output... Lower than A2? I have not used an A2 humbucker that i know of....is it a substantial loss compared to A5? Do you think the different magnet types will affect the wonderful complexity of the hybrids' sound in any way?

If anything, it would add to the detail of the hybrid. It is a touch lower output than A2 but the difference is totally negligible, and that's assuming both are fully charged.

There is noticeably less punch with A2/A3 than A5, but you can raise the pu a touch closer to the strings to compensate.

Mags are cheap and easy to swap in and out. You've got nothing to lose.

 

[jeremy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

i hear a5 as cleaner and more defined than a2 but i feel that even though the magnet isnt as strong alnico II distorts earlier

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

A lot depends on if the magnets are fully charged or really close. Fully charged A5 is a lot of bite and grind and a lot of bass. Midrange is a little weak, relative to the bass and treble. When you weaken it, it tends to lose some of that bite and sound more and more like A2 as you weaken it further, though never totally -- a more even response across the freq spectrum but with a bump in the bass that A2 doesn't have. At least to my ear.

Moderately weakened A5 is ideal for the "creamy PAF" tone a lot of folks look for.

 

[jeremy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

i was speaking of full strength, but i agree with your assesment of degaussing the mag, less bite and a more balanced over all character. i still hear the mids of the a5 as different than the a2 along with the difference in bottom end

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

i still hear the mids of the a5 as different than the a2 along with the difference in bottom end

You're right -- like I said, a weakened A5 never sounds totally like an A2. And not just because of the bump in the bass. The top and mids do still have a different character.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

Hi again

wow, there is some great stuff coming out here.....may i attempt to simplify this a bit by throwing in my speculation, and see if i might be close....

A2 and A5 seem to be the common benchmarks for magnets in our pickups. Would it be concievable to draw a straight line between them (and, i guess, onwards past A5 to A8) .... and then assume that A3 and A4 lie on that straight line...in terms of sonic qualities, frequency response and output level?

....or would A3 and A4 sort of branch off from the line and have their own side branch, so to speak?

 

[jeremy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

the line would sorta go

a3-a2-a4-a5-a8 at least in terms of output. a4 has more mids and little less top than a5 but more bottom and bite than a2

 

[hamerfan]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

jeremy is right on the line. I recently got a dunaged A2 (from an antiquity PAF) - it soundwise near the A3 maybe a bit weaker.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

I might partially disagree with Jeremy on A4. To my ear it is the smoothest of all the Alnico Brothers, even smoother than A2. Otherwise we're of one mind.

 

[jeremy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

really? how highly charged are yours? get yours from allstar?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

Allstar, yes. The charge varies as they all do out of the box, but it doesn't matter because I've tried them fully charged and at varying degrees of degaussing. (I use two neo disks in a vice to charge them fully and an A8 mag to weaken them.) It's definitely the smoothest to my ear, though A2 is pretty close.

 

[jeremy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

do you have a gauss meter? im curious as to how high yours are charged.

it could be the guitars i tried them in

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

No gauss meter -- for degauss testing I just do the ol' fridge test, except with an iron weight that's nice and flat and smooth, judging how much weaker it is by how hard it is to pull off the weight compared to before last time holding it N to N and then S to S against an A8 bar.

For full charging I just run the mag a few times between the neo disks.

 

[BigDaddy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

To me an A4 has less mids in a humbucker.

 

[jeremy]

Re: A3 magnets? rarely mentioned....how do they compare?

daddy, than what?

zhang, i have the neo setup too but a friend of mine has an electromagnet that i use when i want to really charge it up good. it only seems to make a diference with the 4 and 5 but they are stronger after the electromagnet. especially in fender style single coils i prefer the tone of using the neo setup