Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

[bloomfieldriffs]

Installed EMG 81/85 and EXG pot in an ESP LTD.
Breadth of tone is excellent.
Dead silent as far as noise goes.
Output when unleashed drives amp into overdrive right quick.
Sustain is very good.
Clarity of notes within a chord is very good.
But don't like them:
Don't use a pick and the dynamics, articulation and tonal characteristics I can get with my passive pickups is overwhelmingly better.

The question is it a matter of adjusting to actives or is what I'm finding a characteristic of active pickups.

Data, been working on and off with them for about three months, play mostly clean and light to moderate overdrive, blues and jazzy sorta tunes.

Would really like to get them to work because of the of the potential usefulness of broad tone, clarity and sustain.

Any thoughts?

 

[EDX]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

well all the times i did the emg vs passives i always prefered passives for drive and actives for clean, but i do use a pick so.......

also Lt Kojak uses emgs for clean, but he uses the single coil ones afaik

 

[greekdude]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

well all the times i did the emg vs passives i always prefered passives for drive and actives for clean, but i do use a pick so.......

Same here. I just love the 81/60 combo for cleans. But they sound a little weak distorted (and noisy) compared to some passive I have.

 

[bloomfieldriffs]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Thank you both.
Did a test to measure dynamic response, not very scientific but a rough shot:
Computer recording SW has input meters. plucked a single note softly going through a range up to a good pounding trying to keep consistent. The results after several passes were consistent. the passives started lower and had a smoother range to the top. The actives started higher and had significantly fewer points along the way to a higher end point.
So for me, not using a pick, the actives don't offer the dynamics of a passive that do play a roll in the tunes I do.
Not sure how to test the other two variables.

Wondering what it is specifically you both like about actives for clean?

 

[Artie]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

The question is it a matter of adjusting to actives or is what I'm finding a characteristic of active pickups.

I took to my active pups like a duck takes to water. My problem is: trying to go back to my passives.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Many of the newer active designs are arguably a little more expressive, particularly if you're working with a softer attack. The EMG 57/66 set is pretty nice and the Fluence models from Fishman are a step up from the vintage EMG designs, as are the "LiveWire" actives by Duncan, such as the Dave Mustaine set and the single coils Artie is drooling over right now

That said, try running your 81/85 with 18V (2 x 9V batteries) before you change anything.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Did a test to measure dynamic response...the passives started lower and had a smoother range to the top. The actives started higher and had significantly fewer points along the way to a higher end point.

Yeah that's one characteristic of the EMG preamp, it clips HARD, like a brickwall limiter. When people power them with 18 volts, the headroom goes up. So if you want to like the EMG 81/85 but only the dynamics are what are bothering you, then try it with 18 volts.

Blackouts successfully increased the headroom, but they do still clip. And some people complained they were too loud, which is in part because of where they set the gain, but the higher headroom contributes to that as well, because they get louder before they clip. I haven't tried the Retribution (outside of a prototype) and the Jeff Loomis Duncans. Perhaps you'd like those.

The EMG X-Series, which you might like, replaces a couple resistors to drop the preamp gain by 6dB. This manufactures 6dB more of headroom, while they lowered the output impedance so the decibel level would be higher after the signal passed through a volume and tone pot. This way, the actual output (in a 2-knob setup) isn't perceived as 6dB lower than the standard series.

Fluence Moderns, aside from the entirely different technology, happen to use a different preamp design that does have much more headroom. So they don't really have that problem that most active pickups have, where the feel is altered by the preamp clipping. They consume more amperage to deliver that kind of dynamic range, so everything is a tradeoff.

And if you ARE someone who likes that clipping, you feel like it enhances the tone, or you play off of it the same way people play off of a compressor, or a loud amp, etc. then the compression/limiting of the old school EMG's are a good thing, but that is usually for people using distorted tones. It's rare to hear of someone who actually prefers the clipping of an EMG for clean tones, but they're out there.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Killer post, Frank

 

[Artie]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

. . . and the single coils Artie is drooling over right now

I hope those pole pieces don't rust.

 

[mjsmanahan35]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

EMG James Hetfield and Seymour Duncan Gus G Blackouts combined active and passive preamps

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Dynamics can be improved with the 18V mod, although I typically use my EMG axes for all-out assaults, and feel they are fine as is for that role.

I really like the EMG SPC midboost for my EMGs in superstrats. It was originally meant to fatten up single coils, but of course can warm up HBs as well. I typically replace the tone knob with the SPC control, since I keep tone at 10 anyway. I use about 25% boost for rhythm playing, and up to 75% for leads.

Another thing to consider is trying the 85 at the bridge and the 81 at the neck. :cool2:

 

[bloomfieldriffs]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

EMG James Hetfield and Seymour Duncan Gus G Blackouts combined active and passive preamps

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Hey, Gus-G sounds like an ideal solution. Thanks.

 

[EDX]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

well i really like the 81/60 for cleans with a pick as i work my picking dynamics more by the way i pick and where i pick rather than how hard i pick as i'm a hamfist, also liked the way they clip a bit sounding like a loud clean amp even when not that loud

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Hey, Gus-G sounds like an ideal solution. Thanks.

With the Gus-G set, SD engineers basically removed the Blackouts preamp from the individual pickups and put it onto a shared potentiometer that allows you to connect virtually any passive pickup to it. Then they voiced a pair of "coil packs" to his liking and sold them as a set.

While the concept behind the Blackouts preamp is fairly unique, all "actives" are essentially a passive pickup fed through some kind of powered preamp stage. Of course, Frank will be here soon to correct me, I'm sure

I will tell you, though...the output of the Gus G. set is pretty high and the tone isn't for everyone.

I still think the 18V mod should be your next step. It's easy to do and very inexpensive. If you still aren't completely satisfied at that point, then I suggest swapping your two EMG pickups around...you'd be surprised at the difference and it's easy to do! LOTS of EMG players have done this

Also, not sure what the poster above is saying about the EMG Hetfield set...the construction is slightly different than the traditional 81/60 set Hetfield used to play, but they still use a form of built-in preamp like most other actives. He's probably thinking about the quick-connect "hub" that EMG now ships with most of their pickups, which is not a preamp...

 

[bloomfieldriffs]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Thank you masta'c. You are correct, tried the 18V set up and it did much to improve the dynamic response. Will give the swap a try this evening.

 

[bloomfieldriffs]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

Swap complete: 85 bridge is killer; 81 neck passable. Final results, 18V and 85b w/ 81n is a very significant improvement. Guitar has been transformed from unlikable to a very pleasant surprise. I now dig actives.
In time will probably look for a better fit for the neck but for now am very happy.
Thank you again masta'c!

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

I now dig actives.

how many other active brands/models have you tried?

 

[bloomfieldriffs]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

how many other active brands/models have you tried?

Zero. Any recommendation from you would certainly be appreciated.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

I find this interesting: most people who are used to passive pickups generally hate actives the first times they try them, and those who have only used actives exclusively don't like the response of passives. Congrats on being open minded enough to try actives and judge them for what they do, not what they don't do.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Active pickup dilemma - some advice please

I'm glad you saw an improvement. I suggest you spend some time with them in this configuration. If the 81 is a little over the top, consider swapping it for an EMG-60 or another 85.

If you end up wanting to try some other actives, I mentioned several "newer" designs that are really good...the SD LiveWires, EMG 57/66 (you might REALLY like those!), etc.

Also, the new Fishman Fluence pickups are stacking up rave reviews and attracting a LOT of EMG players and artists with their "next generation" pickup technology, so be sure and take a look at those at some point.