Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

[DeathMetalRob]

I've seen the LiveWire HMET took 18V. EMG's can take up to 27V and the Steve Bailey Phase 2 I've got has 45V on the wiring diagram (granted that's a bass pickup).

I'm looking to have a pickup made by the good people of Seymour Duncan. I was in talks with a technician but, they have since dried up.

I want as high output as possible from this active 6 string pickup in the bridge because, I'm putting the AHB-2 Blackouts Metal (jumper IN place) in the neck - this is going to be a loud and nasty guitar :angryfire - I want the sound to suit the look.

I have no problem with wiring as many 9V batteries as is needed for this pickup, just need to let the makers know how big of a hole to rout.

Can any of you more learned people help me with this?

I'd hope to call this pickup the Armageddon - with very good reason.

 

[dominus]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

More batteries don't necessarily mean more output.

Also, Blackouts do NOT work with anything more than 9v.

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

I'm aware of that and I know about the Blackouts, I'd wire a separate battery for that, essentially X-bridge - with X batteries and AHB-2 neck - with 9V

If I were to say 45V, just pulling a figure from the air, with power correct construction for this pickup.

I've an idea what it cost from the tech's estimation.

It's going in a custom built Invader (pointy Flying V).

 

[Artie]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

A typical "hot" humbucker will do an average of about 350 - 450mv's out, with peaks a little over 1-volt. (As observed on an o'scope.)
Any voltage above that will come from an amplifier, whether it be built-in to the pickup or installed in the guitar. At best, you'll simply create the illusion of having a "hot" guitar, when all you've really done is put the amp into the axe. (With all the problems of wiring and battery placement.)

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but just want to make sure you understand that you might be going to a lot of trouble, for an illusion.

Get Seymour Duncan SFX-01 and call it a day. (Guitar Electronics supplies a version that you can install into the guitar.) I just bought one.

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

A typical "hot" humbucker will do an average of about 350 - 450mv's out, with peaks a little over 1-volt. (As observed on an o'scope.)
Any voltage above that will come from an amplifier, whether it be built-in to the pickup or installed in the guitar. At best, you'll simply create the illusion of having a "hot" guitar, when all you've really done is put the amp into the axe. (With all the problems of wiring and battery placement.)

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but just want to make sure you understand that you might be going to a lot of trouble, for an illusion.

Get Seymour Duncan SFX-01 and call it a day. (Guitar Electronics supplies a version that you can install into the guitar.) I just bought one.

That sounds like a good Plan B if this Plan A doesn't work.

I'm obviously aware that hearing a tone from a CD is dependant on studio tricks, amp settings etc. rather than the pickup itself but, the tone that one can imagine from what is heard is more what I'm looking for and the power to back it up.

If it was possible to use infinity in anything, I would simply to push boundaries - just one of those things.

As I called out 45V, in your opinion, would that give more output and headroom as EMG call it with their 18 and 27V mods or just make it louder?

 

[crguti]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

more voltage supply doesn't give more output, only headroom.

using 45 Volts? :laughing: dude, just read a bit... just a bit.

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

Well, I pulled that figure out of the air but, any ideas what it might sound like..?

Just ballparking it..?

 

[dominus]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

Not to mention, the AHB-2 bridge model in the neck will almost certainly sound horrible. I know you want the hottest most death metal guitar possible...

Bill Steer got great tones out of the stock Dimarzio/IBZ pickups in his RG, and he did some Carcass shows with a P-90 equipped LP Jr. He lets his amp do the work.

You want something tight and bright in the neck position. I'd use some variant of the EMG 81 or EMG 60 there. Go ahead and do 18v on that. The difference between 18v and 27v is almost non-existant. Throw the AHB-2 in the bridge and wire it with 9v, although I think a variant of the EMG 85 might give you some absolute crushing tone there, and you can use it with the 18v for the neck.

There you go, 3 batteries (max) total. 2 batteries if you go with EMGs.

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

Not to mention, the AHB-2 bridge model in the neck will almost certainly sound horrible. I know you want the hottest most death metal guitar possible...

Bill Steer got great tones out of the stock Dimarzio/IBZ pickups in his RG, and he did some Carcass shows with a P-90 equipped LP Jr. He lets his amp do the work.

You want something tight and bright in the neck position. I'd use some variant of the EMG 81 or EMG 60 there. Go ahead and do 18v on that. The difference between 18v and 27v is almost non-existant. Throw the AHB-2 in the bridge and wire it with 9v, although I think a variant of the EMG 85 might give you some absolute crushing tone there, and you can use it with the 18v for the neck.

There you go, 3 batteries (max) total. 2 batteries if you go with EMGs.

It's a bit of a discovery model this so, I'm aware it might go wrong.

I know BIll's tone was pretty sweet - I use a P-90 myself and I can pull a good Gorgoroth tone from that.

I own one EMG, a 707 in my Kamecki Raptor 7 and it would be sacrilege to change it otherwise, I'd go with a Duncan - so, I can try cranking that to 27V for a test - EMG say that's the closest to the 85 in their range and see what gives.

Thanks for the advice, mate.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

Since you want the hottest active pickup tone, try the X2N with the BMP.

Hot pickup + hot active preamp = Armageddon

FYI - Armageddon isn't necessarily a good thing

 

[Lucy Diamond]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

Shhhhhhhh....

My friend....

Put your batteries away.

The Black Winter is calling you.


You want loud. You want N A S T Y. You want raucus. You want WTF.

Make your Winter Black.


[But seriously] To answer your question more directly, even EMG states that the difference between 18volts and 24volts (3 9-volt batteries) is negligible. The difference between EMGs running on 9 and 18volts is night and day for feel and head room AND you can use your volume control to clean up an amp with 18volts.

The difference between EMGS running on 18volts versus 24volts will probably only be noticeable to an oscilloscope...or maybe Eric Johnson

Good luck though man...it sounds like a fun project. I really like that you are setting up one guitar that is "too powerful to be used by normals." Use in only in extreme circumstances!!! \m/,

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

The Blackouts are hot enough on 9v already. As far as I know, they will take 18v unharmed, but contrary to EMGs, there is no benefit in doing so. I'll say it like it is - dump your plan because it won't get you anywhere. Choose your pickup for tone and let the amp do its job (what amp you're going to be using, by the way?). Use a booster between the pickup and the amp input, if you need more gain.

 

[dominus]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

The Blackouts are hot enough on 9v already. As far as I know, they will take 18v unharmed,

It'll just harm your tone.

I tried it once, and the Blackout sounded bad with the 18v mod. A lot of other people noticed the same thing.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

The idea of wiring more batteries into an active pickup came from the fact that on EMG's, 18 volts meant more headroom and more passive sounding. In the case of the Blackouts, the 18 volt mod is redundant, because the pickups were made to be organic and passive sounding while still keeping the 9 volt wiring. If you're looking for a good high output active pickup, give a good, hard look at the Blackouts metal bridge. It's going to be one of the highest output actives available, and by far one of the best sounding. It's not that what you're asking is not doable, it is. It's just that what your asking is kind of a question that has been answered, just not in the way that you think.

 

[pinto79]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

FWIW, the old LiveWires used 18 volts because that was the design of the preamp. If you need absolutely the highest output, just get an old LiveWire Metal. They are absolutely brutal. They make the EMG 81 sound weak by comparison....

 

[allstarrme]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

FWIW, the old LiveWires used 18 volts because that was the design of the preamp. If you need absolutely the highest output, just get an old LiveWire Metal. They are absolutely brutal. They make the EMG 81 sound weak by comparison....

The old live wires metal and the blackouts metal are the same thing just with the redesigned preamp that uses 9V vs 18v and has a lot less noise. also they are compatible with EMGs without being out of phase, unlike the livewires.

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

Since you want the hottest active pickup tone, try the X2N with the BMP.

Hot pickup + hot active preamp = Armageddon

FYI - Armageddon isn't necessarily a good thing

I have an X2N-7 but, it doesn't quite cut it. The 8 string Invader I had made has more thump than the X2N - they're the same volume, rather than one being quieter than the other and a little more nasal (I have it in the neck position which, might account for this) I working with SD for a blade pickup that goes beyond what an X2N will do, with any luck. Then I'll have two 8 strings made.

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

Shhhhhhhh....

My friend....

Put your batteries away.

The Black Winter is calling you.


You want loud. You want N A S T Y. You want raucus. You want WTF.

Make your Winter Black.


[But seriously] To answer your question more directly, even EMG states that the difference between 18volts and 24volts (3 9-volt batteries) is negligible. The difference between EMGs running on 9 and 18volts is night and day for feel and head room AND you can use your volume control to clean up an amp with 18volts.

The difference between EMGS running on 18volts versus 24volts will probably only be noticeable to an oscilloscope...or maybe Eric Johnson

Good luck though man...it sounds like a fun project. I really like that you are setting up one guitar that is "too powerful to be used by normals." Use in only in extreme circumstances!!! \m/,

I'm going to get a set of Black Winters for my Ironbird - there's none more black there

As to extreme, yes. The heavier the better, flying V like the Ran Invader, Kahler hybrid trem (I'm not much of a solo player and this bridge can be locked with the turn of a screw and the Kahler system needs less routing thus sacrificing less tone in theory) - Think Jeff Waters red Ran Annihilator with a Kahler.

Hell, I may even put a booster switch in on top of that for the Hell of it. How else can we know how far we can really go unless we try new and perhaps ridiculous things..?

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

FWIW, the old LiveWires used 18 volts because that was the design of the preamp. If you need absolutely the highest output, just get an old LiveWire Metal. They are absolutely brutal. They make the EMG 81 sound weak by comparison....

I have got a LiveWire Metal and even then it sounds like it's lacking something - I feel that there's more I can get from such a pickup.

I know this is going to cost me a fair bit but, for such a tone I think it's worth at least trying for.

I've got a strat that's been beaten half to death and I'm modding it up. I'm putting *four active humbuckers in it and going from there - all are the highest output there are (so, the internet says) I've got GuitarHeads active which are nuclear and very bassy, and currently my LiveWire HMET with 18V.

These three give a sound that I can't really describe with any justice - it puts one of those smiles on your face that you know you shouldn't really have - because, it's wrong. Kind of like hearing a new Cannibal Corpse track and feeling the groove, you know the kind of thing.

I'm going to lay hands on a couple of EMG's of the highest output 81/85 (what's the difference between those and the X series by the way?) and 27V mod it.

Adding this fourth humbucker will either make what I want, a step closer or will ruin the effect BUT, that said - you can see where I'm going here.

Such tonal power, for me, should only be allowed to come from Seymour Duncan (apart from stock pickups in basses and the custom Kamecki, SD are all I want to use) and especially, with the secret ingredient, it should make the sound even more focused.

If you put that into the same form as a Blackouts Metal (the jumper for me permanently fused ON), there might be an option for high/higher output, like the AHB-2.

*For the record, I know 4 hums shouldn't be possible but, with a 21 fret strat and some shifty scratchplate work, it is. You can say I'm an idiot or bonkers or whatever (this isn't news) but, I've got a pretty good record for doing what 'can't be done'.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Active pickups - how high can the voltage go..?

I want to get wired!

Get me the drugs this fool is on….