Adding a Neck Angle

[AlexR]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

^ Technically with 2 guitars you cannot make any judgement as you have non identical situations, however happy with the sustain you are. Even if you went with the best comparative technique for a handful of guitars, the result is only applicable for those individual instruments.

But if you want to make a general recommendation, you go for best practice.....that way for a possible variable effectiveness you will get best outcome regardless.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Thank you for explaining to me that my method is only working on the guitars I own.

Have you tried shimming a neck as I described and been unhappy with the result?

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

I have no idea why you don't read posts before commenting on them. I never even hinted that angled necks were "horrible". Just that it would be a bad idea for the OP to try to sand down the heal of his neck (or a shim, as suggested by metalchurch79) to try to create it. I'm talking about the process used to get to the final result.

Have you ever tried to sand something, even with a flat hard sanding block, and end up with a perfectly flat (side-to-side and front-to-back), even, and precisely angled surface? It is next to impossible. By anybody. You will always end up with a convex surface. In this case, the neck will not fit solidly in the neck pocket. It will rock. Not good! And to create a positive neck angle, like a Gibson, you have to carve a negative angle into the neck heal. That means leaving the end of the heal (toward the body) full thickness and cutting the heal thickness down thinner more toward the neck. I wouldn't begin to attempt that, even with a router and a custom template. Not because I am incapable of doing it, but because I am too smart to do it.

I was not trying to misrepresent your words, guitardoc, and I did read all the posts before replying. I always do. But in this case I thought we were talking about making a neck from scratch, in which case the heel can be angled any which way from the get go. I may have got the idea that you thought an angled heel is bad because you wrote that building it that way is an "absolutely horrible" idea??

I DID sand flat the heel on my neck. It was my first scratch-build and when I first test assembled it I realized I had given the neck a tilt, so the treble side of the fingerboard was higher off the body than the bass side. Out came the sanding block and after an hour of sand/fit/sand some more it was fine. I just used a straight edge to check for flatness in every direction before I painted it all up. Maybe I was too dumb to know I couldn't do it? (There were plenty of dumb little decisions made along the way!)

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Considering there are so many gurus on this thread I wonder if you could address the difference of using shims versus angling the pocket?

imo, angling the neck pocket so that the neck fits perfectly is the "best" way to do it. If you have a problem with the neck angle after the fact, then shimming is the easiest best way to fix it. Is there any noticeable difference? No.

Of course it's much easier to shim however I have always been under the impression that shimming reduces contact which could reduce sustain.

If shimming is done right with the correct material, then there won't be any difference. I have seen studies that show that there is a measurable reduction in sustain by shimming, but not enough to notice AT ALL in the real world. I have also seen studies where there was a slight measurable improvement in sustain, but again, not really noticeable. The differences in these two studies could just be due to the material used or to the workmanship. In any case, you have to conclude that regardless of what the "cork sniffers" may claim, in reality there is no difference. (if done correctly).

In my mind it's similar to cleaning up a neck pocket really well so that you get perfect contact at all points when you screw down the neck.

The only surface area that is important for contact is the flat surface of the heal to the body neck pocket. Any points along the side or end of the heal are inconsequential.

But the analogy could be wrong and I could be missing something. Is there any proof that shims reduce sustain?

No!

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

I was not trying to misrepresent your words, guitardoc, and I did read all the posts before replying. I always do. But in this case I thought we were talking about making a neck from scratch,

Well then obviously you DIDN'T read all of the posts! Read the very first post again. The OP indicates that the neck pocket is established and he can't change that. He is asking about shimming or otherwise changing the angle of the heal of the neck. He's obviously NOT making the neck from scratch.

, in which case the heel can be angled any which way from the get go. I may have got the idea that you thought an angled heel is bad because you wrote that building it that way is an "absolutely horrible" idea??

Again, you didn't read my posts and you ARE misrepresenting my words. I never said anywhere that building "it" with the heal angled is an absolutely horrible idea! Reread my posts. Where did I say that or even hint that??!! I was talking about sanding an angle into the heal of the neck.

I appreciate your apology, if that's what it was meant to be, but it seems more like a rationalization...just trying to justify your misrepresenting me.

You might want to get your facts straight, then try that again.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

No router... just some chisels, files and a rasp, a saw, sandpaper and an old 12v drill... Doesn’t sound like a lot but I’m pretty sure I can get it done

OK, this has got me very confused. How can you possibly build a guitar from scratch without a router? How can you cut the neck pocket? The control cavity? the pickup "routs"? Even the body shape?!

Are you actually building from "scratch" or a kit?

I'm not saying that you CAN'T build one from scratch with the tools you have, but you'd be slightly insane to try.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

OK, this has got me very confused. How can you possibly build a guitar from scratch without a router? How can you cut the neck pocket? The control cavity? the pickup "routs"? Even the body shape?!

Are you actually building from "scratch" or a kit?

I'm not saying that you CAN'T build one from scratch with the tools you have, but you'd be slightly insane to try.

And this, I think, is why I seem confused to you: we are BOTH confused! I assumed from the original post that he is building a neck from scratch ("I am building a guitar for myself FROM SCRATCH..."), you assumed he is using a neck that is already built. From that point on we were talking past each other. Based on the post you just quoted I think it is more likely you are correct. I assumed "from scratch" meant from pieces of lumber, but surely that's not the case with just those tools and apparent inexperience?

So...SHIM!

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Good input on shims vs changing pocket angle. Much appreciated!

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