Adjusting nut position

[bluezone]

Ok, so I have my Epip LP custom in pieces right now. In the midst of installing the SD 59 vintage blues (neck) and SD 59/custom Hybrid, Plus installing the wiring to 59 vintage to coil tap and push/pulls on the tone controls. That and replacing all the wiring.

So while I have all this apart. I thought I'd try to correct the the overly long required adjustment for intonation needed on the bridge. Now just a short while ago i had a bone nut cut for the LP. I found it didn't suit me. So I fitted up a Tusq nut and i prefer the tone of that. not to mention lower action. What i noticed while fitting up the nut, was that the head stock end of the fret board still had bit of glue stuck on it and was not cut flat (straight). it's bowed out. Could this be related to why the G string saddle especially (it's at the end of bridge travel, plus a little extra afforded by the adjustment stud sloppiness) and all the other are so far from being near centre. The guitar has the stock string gauge on it.

Should i bring the fret board back to flat on the end or just make sure the nut is flush? The intonation problem was there even with the Pro cut bone nut. did he miss something else. I've already corrected small fret flaws after the re-repair. But lets just stick to the problem with the nut.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Type "les paul intonation" into a google search. Click on images and take a look at photos of the bridges and their saddle positions. There will be some "oddities" but you will notice a pattern that is similar on most of the photos. More specifically, you'll see that the saddle for the G string is often the farthest (toward tailpiece) one back. It's not unusual that the G saddle is very close to or at the very end of it's travel.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Mine are a bit of a zig zag








And I corrected the A string by the way

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Type "les paul intonation" into a google search. Click on images and take a look at photos of the bridges and their saddle positions. There will be some "oddities" but you will notice a pattern that is similar on most of the photos. More specifically, you'll see that the saddle for the G string is often the farthest (toward tailpiece) one back. It's not unusual that the G saddle is very close to or at the very end of it's travel.

Thanks for the reply. I was aware of this. Even with the saddle at full adjustment and all other slack taken up, It is still slightly not quite enough. Even if i let things be as they are. The butt end of the fret board (meaning what the nut butts/seats against) is not flat, contact is on on the center side portion of the nut.

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Mine are a bit of a zig zag








And I corrected the A string by the way

Yep, mine look like that, just a lot closer to the end of travel.
Luv that colour.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Adjusting nut position

I was faced with a similar problem
When I put a roller nut on my squire

I had to move the slot in towards the bridge
To get the break angle right
3 mm if I recall

While I was there I moved the high E end
A bit closer

My bridge is almost straight across now

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Adjusting nut position

If you notice, Gibson/Epi saddles can be flipped around so that the string makes contact closer to one side than the other, have you tried flipping them?

Look at this one:



Notice how the b and e seem to be upside down?

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Adjusting nut position

OK, so right now you cannot effectively "lengthen" the G string because there is no more saddle adjustment. And, you notice that the "wall" of the nut slot at the headstock side is not cut evenly. So, if you were able to even up that uneven nut slot wall, you may, effectively, gain a tiny bit of travel/be able to increase effecting string length. A couple problems though. First, are you positive that it's not cut evenly. Second, if it definitely isn't and you are to correct it, will the nut still be wide enough to fit in the slot? Finally, do you have the experience, confidence and tools to make sure you are actually fixing the problem correctly. Personally, I'm not a Luthier or a tech so I'm not going to go any further in procedure. I have replaced nuts but not had to do anything other than clean out the slot and, once or twice, tweak the bottom of a slot level. You may want to have a tech or luth do it unless you are sure that you can.

Aside from that, you can flip the saddle (if it isn't already flipped). And assuming you have an abr style/width bridge, a roller bridge or a Nashville will give you more travel.

Beyond that, I'm sure that the guitar builders, luthiers and techs will chime in here.

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

If you notice, Gibson/Epi saddles can be flipped around so that the string makes contact closer to one side than the other, have you tried flipping them?

Look at this one:

View attachment 86847

Notice how the b and e seem to be upside down?

I had thought about doing that. But even in the supplied image the B string saddle has 4 to 5 times more travel than i have left on the B string.

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Well it is relative. Meaning what ever i remove from the fret board end will only change the resting position of the saddles by 1/2 the amount. This assuming the intonation being set to the 12 fret.

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

I was faced with a similar problem
When I put a roller nut on my squire

I had to move the slot in towards the bridge
To get the break angle right
3 mm if I recall

While I was there I moved the high E end
A bit closer

My bridge is almost straight across now

Yes this is exactly what i am talking about. Did you find that the note intonation per fret was off or did it make everything better?

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Adjusting nut position

The Squire is a bolt on neck

I had an out if it didn't work.
Square the slot first to the first fret

Check and then. Maybe taper it a bit
Its hard to put the wood back if you go too far

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

The Squire is a bolt on neck

I had an out if it didn't work.
Square the slot first to the first fret

Check and then. Maybe taper it a bit
Its hard to put the wood back if you go too far

This is true. I have a Epip LP Jr. (A.K.A. the Butchers Bloc), that I've mercilessly tried things on. Another neck was always an option with it if things went wrong. They haven't so far. By the way, I have a Squire bullet HSS sitting in the corner right now.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Good luck
Post pictures

Those help when your asking advice

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Ok i finished my rewiring of the neck pickup to be able to coil tap (4 wire vs the old 2 wires). The Black PL Custom looks good with black PUP's. Besides chrome covers with worn gold platting on every thing else looked out of place. Then reread everyone's posts and decided ***** it, I am going to tackle the nut end of the fret board.

I must of removed about .007-.010" of material to get the end of the fret board end flat. Glued the nut in and Re strung and over clamped. I gave it a 1/2 hour to dry and checked the intonation. I had to adjust all the saddles toward the neck 1/2-3/4 of a turn. Except the G string, i still ended up having to flip the saddle 180 deg. Intonation across every fret actually seems better. only one odd ball, F note on the D string is a hair flat.

I need to let it sit over night so that glue can fully cure. Then i'll give it a play.

Thanks everyone. You especially ehdwud.
Cheers.



Sorry couldn't get my phone to focus.

 

[bluezone]

Re: Adjusting nut position

Okay, I tried the guitar out and I've picked up some sustain in the high notes. Rob Chapman did a comparison of sustain between LP's a while back. He used a tone and a half bent B on the B string for the note. Before the repair, I was getting about 6 seconds of sustain. Now i'm getting a bit better than 9 seconds. If nothing else that was worth while.

I double posted one picture. Here is the one I was trying to post: