Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

[Pacoray]

Hello

I have a set of Texas Specials. I like some things about them but not love them. I like the middle with the humbucker I have in the bridge makes a good Split bucker + middle quack,.. middle by itself is not great and Neck is to dark ,..

I got them used and the lead have been changed so they are 100% original .. I'm thinking about underwind them.

I have google it and search here but not much info , there is info about the process but no info about what will be sound once is underwound.

I like to know if someone have done this and what is the results in thems of sound. And how much wire to remove.
I think Texas Specials use a thiner wire (43 intead of 42 ?? ) so maybe underwind them will not lead to the result I want.

Its probably easier so sell them and try another set , but ,..

Any experience or opinion on it??

By the way sorry for my English It is not my lenguage.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

given that the coils are wax potted, i think you will almost certainly destroy a perfectly good set of pickups when you try to unwind them. Even if your idea works, ther is no guarantee that youll like the results.

You would be better off buying a set of pickups more in line with what you need, and make some money back by selling the texas special because they are a very popular pickup just as they are.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

Well, the outer wire should be 'easy' to unwrap (I think its called the finish wire).

It could be a good way to learn about pickups, especially if you're not worried about having to sell them at the end.

The T/S pickups are quite harsh supposedly - less wire tends to reduce mids and enhance the treble. This might to a certain degree increase the brightness or harshness these pickups have. There is only one sure way to find out though.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

The whole point of the Texas Specials is for them to not fall apart under high volume. To do this they use smaller gauge wire and wind them to higher resistance than vintage single coils. This means they were designed to not be as open or dynamic as a vintage spec pickup in order to retain clarity and controlability at high volume. If you want a vintage spec pickup with a vintage sound buy one rather than trying to modify a Texas Special.

 

[B2D]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

The whole point of the Texas Specials is for them to not fall apart under high volume. To do this they use smaller gauge wire and wind them to higher resistance than vintage single coils. This means they were designed to not be as open or dynamic as a vintage spec pickup in order to retain clarity and controlability at high volume. If you want a vintage spec pickup with a vintage sound buy one rather than trying to modify a Texas Special.

This. Why not just get a set of SSL's instead or something similar from Duncan? There's lots of choices here: http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/stratocaster/

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

I'm not sure whether Texas Specials use 42 or 43 AWG, but I'm guessing 42AWG, because my understanding is that if you wind a coil with 43 AWG such that it only has a resistance in the area of 6.5K, it will sound weak. A Tele neck with 43 AWG is usually wound up to the 7's, for example.

I've been curious about this forever though, so I'm going to get some 42 and 43 AWG and use a hand microscope to see if I can determine the wire size by comparing them

given that the coils are wax potted, i think you will almost certainly destroy a perfectly good set of pickups when you try to unwind them. Even if your idea works, ther is no guarantee that youll like the results.

I know from having unwound some cheapos for experimentation that unwinding a wax potted coil isn't that dangerous if it's not already taped up, which Texas Specials shouldn't be. So long as you go slow, the wax actually helps keep it all together as you unwind it, but if you're agressive the wire might break and the broken end can be hard to find.

The hard part for me was getting the insulation off the very fine wire in order to make a new solder joint at the eyelet, without destroying the wire in the process. I think you have to use a solvent or something, but it can be done, as pickups winders have to do this every time they wind a pickup. If you screw it up, just unwind it a little more to create more of a lead and try again.

Another thing to make note of when you unwrap it is how closely laid each wind is to the next, and after how many winds the wire makes it from one side of the bobbin to the other, as this is part of the pickup's recipe, so that information would be worth sharing since we don't all have Texas Specials we can destroy / unwind.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

Hello

I have a set of Texas Specials. I like some things about them but not love them. I like the middle with the humbucker I have in the bridge makes a good Split bucker + middle quack,.. middle by itself is not great and Neck is to dark ,..

I got them used and the lead have been changed so they are 100% original .. I'm thinking about underwind them.

I have google it and search here but not much info , there is info about the process but no info about what will be sound once is underwound.

I like to know if someone have done this and what is the results in thems of sound. And how much wire to remove.
I think Texas Specials use a thiner wire (43 intead of 42 ?? ) so maybe underwind them will not lead to the result I want.

Its probably easier so sell them and try another set , but ,..

Any experience or opinion on it??

By the way sorry for my English It is not my lenguage.

if you don't want to risk having some paper weights, I'd encourage you to send them to a pickup shop to have that done. or ask MJ in the custom shop to wind you a set of these to your request.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

If you want a vintage voiced pickup for the neck position, buy a vintage voiced pickup for the neck position. I would be more willing to replace the magnets in a TS then try to unwind it. I'm pretty sure there isn't some secret formula for turning a TS into a SSL-1 by removing 378 turns of wire. If you can't buy something suitable off the shelf then call the custom shop.

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

I would be more willing to replace the magnets in a TS then try to unwind it.

No no no, that will almost certainly destroy it. With plastic bobbins you can do that, but with fiber flat work, the wire is wound around the magnets and there is a wax everywhere, so you're likely to break the coil either during removal, or during replacement of the pole pieces. I've read that people have used a soldering iron to heat up and push out the pole piece all at once, but heat can weak an alnico magnet and that just seems like an all around bad idea, the kind of thing you'd do if you actively hated the pickup.

If OP is willing to risk a pickup for some fun DIY experimentation, I'm not inclined to talk him out of it. You learn a lot this way.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

No no no, that will almost certainly destroy it. With plastic bobbins you can do that, but with fiber flat work, the wire is wound around the magnets and there is a wax everywhere, so you're likely to break the coil either during removal, or during replacement of the pole pieces. I've read that people have used a soldering iron to heat up and push out the pole piece all at once, but heat can weak an alnico magnet and that just seems like an all around bad idea, the kind of thing you'd do if you actively hated the pickup.

If OP is willing to risk a pickup for some fun DIY experimentation, I'm not inclined to talk him out of it. You learn a lot this way.

Well give him the secret formula that tells him how many winds he's supposed to take off a TS coil with 42 gauge wire to equal a pickup with 43 gauge wire? I would like to know how I can change an Ibanez Powersound in order to come up with a Seth Lover.

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

What makes you think I have that sort of information on hand? Jut measure the DCR, takes winds off, reconnect the wire to the eyelet, measure the DCR again for reference, see if you like how it sounds, and go from there.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

What makes you think I have that sort of information on hand?

Why wouldn't you?

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

OP just wants to know how an under-wound Texas Special will sound, he's not trying to create an SSL-1, or a Seth Lover.

OP: the resonant peak will go up, the inductance will go down... it will sound brighter and quieter.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

No no no, that will almost certainly destroy it. With plastic bobbins you can do that, but with fiber flat work, the wire is wound around the magnets and there is a wax everywhere, so you're likely to break the coil either during removal, or during replacement of the pole pieces. I've read that people have used a soldering iron to heat up and push out the pole piece all at once, but heat can weak an alnico magnet and that just seems like an all around bad idea, the kind of thing you'd do if you actively hated the pickup.

If OP is willing to risk a pickup for some fun DIY experimentation, I'm not inclined to talk him out of it. You learn a lot this way.

have you been messing with the SDUGF all this time and you're really a boutique winder that comes here to hang out with the common folk?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

To the OP if you want to make your TS sound like lower output single I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend this device.

http://wildepickups.com/Q-filter.html

It will give your pup a vintage feel and tone on the cheap.

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

have you been messing with the SDUGF all this time and you're really a boutique winder that comes here to hang out with the common folk?

I wish.. but I just ordered some spools of 42 and 43 AWG off ebay so that I can start figuring out what the AWG is for a bunch of pickups I have on hand by comparing them with the spool wire, and it occurred to me that I have everything I'd need to wind a pickup except a winder. I have a dead Texas Special and an SSL-4 I accidentally broke that need to be rewound, so this probably going to happen.

To the OP if you want to make your TS sound like lower output single I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend this device.

http://wildepickups.com/Q-filter.html

It will give your pup a vintage feel and tone on the cheap.

I wonder how that works. The interesting thing is that the tone pot cap usually bleeds treble to ground, so I wonder how you could put another component in that spot and yet keep high and and discard mids or low end, which I assume you have to do in order to achieve a more trebly vintage sound.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

I don't see how unwinding a texas special would yield a different pickup? Just like I don't see how unwinding something like an Ibanez Powersound would yield a different pickup? If you have one position on your guitar you don't like then replace it. But don't expect that there's a hidden formula that turns one pickup wound with one gauge of wire into a pickup wound with another. As long as were talking about turning a usable pickup into a paperweight I don't see where swapping the magnets is riskier than unwinding one?

 

[Pacoray]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

Thanks for your advice, ..
Unwinding/mod the pickup yields in less resale value or even worst , ruining them...

I´m not trying to turn the texas specials to SSL-1 , or rewind them with diferent wire , just modify them a little bit to see what happens.
Changing magnets is not posible with that pickup , maybe uncharging them ( degauss with a strong magnet but with no way of knowing how much),..
Not what I ask for. But a good question anyway , what would be the result ? for what i now the tone would have less atack and darker tone ... (?)

It seems like sound results for underwind if everything goes well would be brigter with less mids, less output .. not sure if that what i want ..

Probably it is best to sell that and get something more of my liking.

comon sense ,.. A DIY proyect , will end up with a DIY thing..

It remind me of a joke ,..
A sculpture student is asked to "extract" a Angel figure out of a big piece of wood.
He starts removing pieces of wood , and removing wood , and so on for hours , and .. ..
When only a toothpick of wood was left the teacher asked him ,..
Where is the angel??
- Well it must be hiding inside the toothpick or there was no Angel on that piece of wood from the begining !!

Again sorry for my english , hopefully you'll understand.

 

[B2D]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

Thanks for your advice, ..
Unwinding/mod the pickup yields in less resale value or even worst , ruining them...

I´m not trying to turn the texas specials to SSL-1 , or rewind them with diferent wire , just modify them a little bit to see what happens.

If you're set on that, I'd recommend getting in touch with Fender's Custom Shop and see if they'll build an under-wound Texas Special set for you.

http://www.fender.com/custom-shop/how-to-order/

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Advice on Underwound texas specials , How will it sound like?

The resale on Texas Specials is absolutely nothing... sellers can't even get $100 for a whole set on the used market.

In that respect, they are probably the BEST pickups to mod on the planet. Their sound to cost ratio makes them perfect for all sorts of experimentation.

Go for it and post your results here!

Don't rule out a metric gauge of wire between 42 and 43AWG... it's done more often than you think.