After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

Pierre

Stratologist
Yep I've now been playing guitar for just a little over a year. I built my own amplifier, pedal, modded pickups, guitars, I'm about to mod a pedal, and build a guitar this summer. So that's right, I'm hooked on DIY. It sure is all fun but all in all I do that a lot for the same recurrant reason, to have the most versatile gear in the smallest space possible. So I'll just adress different points in the gear, and explain my experiences with them, and at the end maybe even throw in a rig or two and explain who they'd suit...

First... The AMP! (who would have thought :smack: )

It's only been a year but I've already been convinced that tube > everything else. Not by people, not by music store reps, but by my own ears. I simply one day thought 'eh, my Peavey Envoy sounds cool, but what is the tube sound?' and therefore I went to try a little Laney LC15R at the shop. It'd cost 150 euros more than the Peavey, and hell! What a tone machine! EVEN at low volumes and for clean tones (where Solid State performs the best, I believe) you truly can hear the difference. And the amp is small, and not too expensive.
So what did I do?
I found a kickass gear on a Laney AOR112 combo. Great amp, but the size of a midget elephant. Now my student flat room doesn't agree with this. The neighbors either. Common sense: 1, Pierre: 0.

If you don't want tube, well then, there's SS! And I can't really comment on that. Most SS amps you'd find for a lot of money are just full with random effects and they don't attract me at all. If I were to get a SS amp I'd try out all amps under 30W and see which has the best clean tone, for reasons I'll introduce later.

And there's also Digital... Ah! I can already hear s******ings (yes, YOU! At the back). Blablabla sounds like SRV or $5,000 amp, blablabla 1,000,000 effects for $20... You get the picture. So what did I do? I got a POD 2.0 (yeaaaah... I know, I buy I buy, but I'm a uni student, I have time to play as well ;) ). Now it was cool. I barely used the effects but this thing sounded great. First I played it in front of the Peavey with a neutral sound, then through the power amp of the Laney. First imrpovement there. The tone was not 'tube' but it was surely more organic and maybe 'truer' than before. I liked it.
But
Impossible to switch channels easily. And what's more fun than standing up, rocking out, and just use pedals?
So I found a great deal on the floorboard and got it. POD + Floorboard = GREAT versatility. But no tube sound. Le merde. Pierre: 1, Rig: 1. We're about even though. This is the stage where I'm at now. I want a smaller amp, but the POD + floorboard already provide all the versatility I need. I could sacrifice this for a tube combo, or slaughter my tone through a cheap-ish but small SS amp. I'll go for a wee tube combo like this Laney and unplug the POD for blues escapade. EH! Sounds like a plan!
Now of course, a lot of people would say 'well the tube tone mostly comes from the power amp being cranked, you don't have a stadium/studio/aircraft carrier to do it in'. To this I say... yes. But... it's not totally true. Tube preamps also do bring a certain amount of 'tubitude' in the sound, which, to my ears at least, is far from negligible. I want a 15W tube combo, and I'll probably never OD its power tubes apart from during a hypothetical gig. But I WILL get tube sound from a small size combo with loads of options. LE YAY!
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

Amp conclusions:
If you want power tube distortion, forget it at bedroom level. If you use a hotplate or another attenuator, you'd lose a lot of sound quality if you attenuate over say 12db. Mostly at room volume levels, you'd only get SS sound or tube preamp distortion. Then it depends on how much gain you want from the amp itself. Don't forget that high gain tube amps TEND to sound fairly thin at low volumes when only the preamp distorts. This is something that can hardly be remedied to. As far as SS amps are concerned, they sound worse and worse as you turn them amp. And hybrids are only a marketing hype (a 12AX7 bringing a sweet, smooth, tube tone... ok, dream on). Bottom line: if you want that rectifier tone, foggetaboutit. Use a POD through a tube power amp or if you're not picky through something SS.

And now to the favorite drummer's section (i.e me) the PEDALS! Yeah, well I've just demoralized every Hetfiled wannabees, so I may as well redeem myself: there are some great distortion pedals out there that can give you a slightly more solid tone at lesser volumes! WOW! Crazy.
Imagin... You can set your amp (let's assume, a 2 channel amp without footswitch as a lot of practice SS amps are) for a clean tone, a slightly crunchy or blues tone, and then have that kickass Boss Metal Zone you bought because it sounds like a buz... sorry a Rectifier, and have that crushing distortion to kick some ass. Well does it not seem like a great idea. And ultimately there's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately most of these pedals will be analogue or digital and still, some picky people will go 'well, ya know, this tube amp sounds much better...' but don't listen. Unless you can daily crank your beloved 100W tube amp, there WILL be a compromise to be made (ah, lucky he who loves the SS tone and hates tubes...)
Pedals offer a lot of options. A clean boost (MXR micro amp, SD pickup booster) can increase the preamp distortion of a tube amp into a thicker, more cutting and tighter sound. Perfect for this tube amp you have trouble overdriving at your favorite levels. I use a Boss SD1 for my Laney. Sure it's a little artificial sounding, but more than decent for me (and easily modable. And did I mention CHEAP??). Which leads me to another rule of thumb...

Tube pedal --> SS amp < Analogue pedal --> tube amp
It's that simple people. I'm not 100% whether it would matter as much at bedroom levels, but don't think that because you bought this $300 tube Overdrive you'll push your SS amp into a more tube sound. It will improve (well, you get what I mean ;) ) but it won't be as good as similar analogue pedal through a tube amp.
And of course, if you love tube, the ultimate comes through THIS form... Tube pedal --> tube amp
No tube cables, pickups, picks, so it's not too hard to remember.

From there we can mention a bunch of bedroom people already...

The beginner who doesn't have the ear. He will have the SS amp, a couple of pedals for effects, a fun distortion a la DS1 or MT2, and be totally happy (... le sigh) until he grows up like the author (yeah, trust me, don't...)

The not so beginner who cares about tube but wants more versatility. ME! Yeah. Problems there. A lot of sacrifices to make... BUT... I have zie solutions... just wait.

The tube junkie who mods everything to sound better, can crank his amp, and thinks 'tubetubetubetubetube'. Admit it people we all wish we could be him. A/Bing between this Fender Twin and a JCM800, with a wee Dumble SSS or Overdrive in between...Well I can always dream on eh...
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

I don't know if you guys noticed, but lately there's been a trend towards smaller tube amplifiers. 15W, 5W... People advertise them as useable in the bedroom BUT be careful: if you're bent on getting this power tube distortion, dream on. Even 5W is way too loud for most sane parents (and not deaf) parents. The Epiphone Valve Juniors, Fender Pro Junior and Blues Junior, Laney LC and VC15 are all versatile amps with very decent sounds.

Set them up for that sweet over the edge clean tone, a la SRV, where you can hit the strings hot for a clean sound and hard for crushing power chords... This is the fantastic bit about tube amps in general over SS, the dynamics. This little plus that makes them better to most people. Furthermore a small amp like the Epiphone, with no controls, could act as a power amp for loads of pedals... A TS9 or similar OD to push it a little, a distortion pedal behind (please people, not an MT2...unless you KNOW how to use it) it. Of course, if you're careful, it'd all be very tube sounding because you'd have done your homework or listened to that sales rep, and you could still have a kickass rig for low volume playing. And each distortion/OD/Fuzz pedal is like another channel.

As for myself, I'll go for a Laney LC15R, run the POD in its effects return, and play as I do now, but with a much smaller physical volume.

And I still want that 5W Epiphone Valve jr head so that one day I can A/B it to a 12'' cab along with my 2W tube amp I'm building ;)

And this couldn't ever be complete (...ish) without a couple of basic info/myths about tube amps.


30W is NOT twice as loud as 15W. It's twice as loud as 3W. 300W is twice as loud as 30W. Yeah you got it. There is VERY little volume difference between a 15W and a 30W amp. Mostly, it's heardroom that matters (which I did not mention here as what I wrote concerned bedroom levels exclusively).
Headroom, by the way, is how loud you can turn up this power amp without getting the tubes to overdrive. Basically how loud you can keep a clean sound (crazy, but it DOES matter to some people)

EVEN 5W is LOUD. I cranked that little Epiphone and I couldn't do it for too long, it hurt my ears. It would never survive a parent, sister, cat, or music teacher.

Atternuators are not the Messiah, they are ONE solution amongst others. By the way, if I went that way I'd also get a lower wattage speaker so I could also get this speaker overdrive at lower volume.

Tubes/speakers/placement of tone stack/PI/tranformers can ALL make a LOT of difference to an amp's sound.

There is always much more to an amp that it seems. Would you rather have a tube rectifier or a SS one? Would you even know the differences? How about a long tailed pair Phase inverter as opposed to a split load one? Yeah it's very easy to get lost in all this, but it all contributes to the tone ;)

The placements of those nifty little pedals matters a lot too.

And no, I don't know the secret to SRV's tone.

Until another time, yours truly,
Pierre
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

Don't put down bedroom cranked tube amp tone until you've tried power scaling - unlike attenuation it's internal and reduces the plate voltage of the power tubes to lower the volume, while at the same time keeping the bias constant. That's my next project.
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

I've read a bit about this... It's possible to mess up with the OT to achieve this effect, but it only goes by certain excrements right? I somehow doubt you could turn a 50 or 100W tube amp into a half watt monster to crank in bedroom, but I may be wrong. If you find out more about it, DO TELL!
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

cool bit =)


good fer the newbies and i say we stick this into the vault
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

Thanks dude :) I realized that it may have been written in a very confusing manner :laugh2:
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

Um.. well on about your point of a pedal to get high gain sounds..

Ive played my own 5150 and a friends recto at bedroom volumes (through a 1x12), sounds better than any pedal ive heard, sounds great actually :). High gain amps "do not" necessarily sound thin at low volumes, some may, but mine doesnt.


Only a year of playing behind you but you hold a lot of knowledge, after about a year playing i was getting my first decent amp, a Marshall avt150, i loved it so much, it was the most amazing amp in the world to me at the time, i still like it but it doesnt compare to my valve amps.

I never used think so hard as you did about tone, i was happy with my marshall and all my efforts went into improving my technique and song writing, its only in the last year or so (been playing 5 years and 4 months approx) that ive really gotten into the real techy side of stuff.
 
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Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

I bought myself a peavey classic 30 and a very nice guitar made by a company called belman. One thing I realised, I'm not going to get good tone when I'm practising or learning new songs, but when the family is out or my band is over to practise, then I get to hear my classic 30 roar. I refuse to use any pedals till I find something natrual, and nothing yet, so I've made the sacrifice of putting up with crappy tone when I mess around or practise, something I can live with, and when I need it I actualy have the power and tone I want. I'd prefer to have an awsome tone when i need it and crappy tone when i dont rather then a good tone when I need it and a good tone when i dont need it. There are some nice SS amps out there, but I like tube overdrive, and the digital amps I tried and could afford didn't sound right at high volumes.
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

very nice man!

But about what wattages are twice as loud etc.

Wouldn't 12watts be twice as loud as 3watts? and 120watts twice as loud as 30w?

or am I wrong again :smack: ?
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

i think it works more like

30w is twice as loud as 3w
300w is twice as loud as 30w

Though that seems silly, i think its right.
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

I thought it was 3 watt to 9 watt to be twice as loud... but your probably right.
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

Well basing on this i just tested my 10w 6L6 valve amp (Uk boutique maker) and my 120w peavey 5150..

On terms of loudness id say my above theory is correct, through my 4x12 the 10w is loud as hell (loud enough to gig), the 5150 is a lot louder ofcourse.
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

BigBazz said:
Um.. well on about your point of a pedal to get high gain sounds..

Ive played my own 5150 and a friends recto at bedroom volumes (through a 1x12), sounds better than any pedal ive heard, sounds great actually :). High gain amps "do not" necessarily sound thin at low volumes, some may, but mine doesnt.


Only a year of playing behind you but you hold a lot of knowledge, after about a year playing i was getting my first decent amp, a Marshall avt150, i loved it so much, it was the most amazing amp in the world to me at the time, i still like it but it doesnt compare to my valve amps.

I never used think so hard as you did about tone, i was happy with my marshall and all my efforts went into improving my technique and song writing, its only in the last year or so (been playing 5 years and 4 months approx) that ive really gotten into the real techy side of stuff.
Yeah but I'm a student, I have A LOT of free time :laugh2: hehe I'm happy about my playing to be honest. I'm just a bit confused about where I want to go with it but I think I found that out not long ago. I do play for a couple of hours a day, but I also need to mess wit hthe things, I just love it. Now with a baby in the flat it's harder though, and I can use the time for MORE modding :D
That and I can't afford the guitar tech. Doing it all myself is way worth it in the long run.
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

I just use a V-AMP II thru my Stereo for bed room playing and get similar (enough) sound then at reh. room.
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

Pierre said:
I've read a bit about this... It's possible to mess up with the OT to achieve this effect, but it only goes by certain excrements right?
excrements? excrement is poop. don't you mean increments? :smack: :laugh2:
 
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Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

...:smack: Thanks dude :laugh2: Yeah that's the one. :D Maybe my amp is crap eh? :D
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

I do not know if this was mentioned, but I seen something on a review about removing some of the tubes to lower the wattage... Is that true? Just wondering. Anyway, I have the Gibson GA5 and it is very loud, thats why I got my Seymour Duncan Tweak Fuzz. I can crank it up a lot of times though to a desireable level and when my friends are over jamming or im with my band, its over - crank to 10! I could use some more pedals though. Looking at a Fulltone Soul-Bender for some lead smoothness and maybe some more fuzzes, I kinda fell in love with the fuzz tone!
 
Re: After a year of bedroom playing... Impressions + tips for n00bs

It's true if:

Your amp works with a pushpull poweramp. Which means one tube works for a moment, then the other, etc... very fast. You can pull the two inside or the two outside tubes, and it'd lower the output by half. BUT You'd have to drop the impedance of the speakers by half too I believe.
You lose headroom too.
 
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