AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

[blueman335]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

I lived the tone from the '57, but HATED the sound cuz when i got the bridge A2P sounding good, the '57 would sound dark, muddy and bassy. So I bought the A2P neck since its sound is matched to be paired with the bridge A2P and I love it. would another option would be to use a pup with an A5 mag in the neck, such as the A2P in the bridge and maybe like a '59 in the bass?

I find neck PU's with A2's lack the sparkle & definition I need, so in my 490R's, '57 Classics, & PG's, I put in A5's (much cheaper than buying a new PU), and get the tone I want that way. Try a five dollar A5 in your '57. It's a very good PU, just doesn't have the right magnet for some players.

 

[blueman335]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

Then you owe it to yourself to try A2 in the neck position. The reason I like it with low winds in the neck is because the lower the wind, the less midrange you get. Because A2 is naturally middy, coupling it with a low wind results in an exceptionally balanced pickup.

The problem I have with A2's in any PU is that I don't hear them as "balanced." They seem to lack treble & bite (may be an ear wax build up on my part). The top end seems too rounded and compressed. In some situations, that can work very well, but to me that gets tiring.

As a man who loves warm, midrange tones (think 335's, LP's, and SG's), I also need some treble to cut thru. I find an A5 in the neck to be pretty balanced (the magnet gives treble & bass, and the neck position itself fills in the mids). Agreed: in some PU's the bass can be a bit strong ('59N comes to mind). On the bridge, I "balance" my A5 PU's with 250K pots, shaving off some of the abundant treble which makes the mids more prominent. Still have enough treble to slice thru. To me, that's a balanced EQ; equal does of everything.

I also think that whatever an A2 can do, an A3 can do better, as the extra treble balances the EQ.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

The problem I have with A2's in any PU is that I don't hear them as "balanced." They seem to lack treble & bite (may be an ear wax build up on my part).
QUOTE]

Interesting observation. It's been documented that people lose high frequency hearing when they have hearing damage. Perhaps playing in front of a loud amp for too long with no protection is the cause of your dislike of alnico II.

 

[jimijames]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

The problem I have with A2's in any PU is that I don't hear them as "balanced." They seem to lack treble & bite (may be an ear wax build up on my part). The top end seems too rounded and compressed. In some situations, that can work very well, but to me that gets tiring.

As a man who loves warm, midrange tones (think 335's, LP's, and SG's), I also need some treble to cut thru. I find an A5 in the neck to be pretty balanced (the magnet gives treble & bass, and the neck position itself fills in the mids). Agreed: in some PU's the bass can be a bit strong ('59N comes to mind). On the bridge, I "balance" my A5 PU's with 250K pots, shaving off some of the abundant treble which makes the mids more prominent. Still have enough treble to slice thru. To me, that's a balanced EQ; equal does of everything.

I also think that whatever an A2 can do, an A3 can do better, as the extra treble balances the EQ.

Have you tried any sub 7.5k, unpotted A2 neck pickups? Honestly the difference between a wax potted A2 neck pickup and an unpotted one is night and day. Plus, the low wind balances out the mids from A2 and adds treble. I have to agree with benjy on the fact that you have to look at pickup construction as a whole - I've heard muddy, undefined A5 pickups (mostly dimarzios actually) and I've heard A2 pickups with very un-A2 eq's (The Pearly Gates and '78 come to mind - both have heaps o' treble and fairly tight bass, the '78 more so than the Pearly Gates)

As far as A3 is concerned, it does have more treble, but it's chimier instead of singing like A2. I like A2 for the same reason I prefer hearing Aretha Franklin Sing to a professional piano player - the piano player has a wonderfully defined sound that rings like a church bell, but ultimately cannot match the power and organic quality of a good singer. I'm not saying that A5 doesn't have power, but it doesn't have the same kind of power A2 has. Have you seen 12 angry men? A2's got the soft sell.

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

Great information coming out here, gang.

Thanks a lot, and keep it coming, I am all ears! I am really enjoying the volley of perceptions here

 

[praisegeetarman]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

I don't have a 335, but I have a schecter E/A hollow body that I've been working on for a long time to find the right pickups. It always seems to be too bright for me, and would be a perfect candidate to go down the road, except for the fact that it was a gift from my wife. Knowing that I will have to be burried with that guitar, I have done a lot of pickup swapping to find the right combo. I believe I have found the right neck pickup in an uncovered seth lover with a magnet change to an A5. Sounds very nice in this guitar. Very bell like with a pretty tight bottom. I was really surprised how much differece the magnet change made. Brought this pickup right into where I wanted it to be. Now I have some more work to do on the bridge pickup. Now it has a seth with an A2 and it is WAY too bright. I had an alnico pro in it for a while and that was better. My next plan of action is to put an A8 in the seth. If that is still too bright, then maybe a custom with an A8.

My point in the rambling is that you really have to try the combination in your guitar that might be best and then work from there. My standard setup in most of my humbucker guitars is A2 in the bridge and A5 in the neck (mostly low output hums) but that clearly does not work with this guitar. Start with a set that you might have or can get cheap, because if you want the perfect set, the first set you try will most likely not stay in the guitar.

One other thing I might add to muddy the waters a little. Don't forget that string selection can really change the tone of a guitar. For a while I got really caught up in using only 9.5 gauge strings in all my guitars, but then realized that string gauge is a very good tone tool. Going to 10's or 11's can really darken up a guitar that is too bright or vice-versa.

Just my 2 cents. Great thread guys. Always good to hear what others are finding from their experience.

Keith

 

[blueman335]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

Interesting observation. It's been documented that people lose high frequency hearing when they have hearing damage. Perhaps playing in front of a loud amp for too long with no protection is the cause of your dislike of alnico II.

It could be one of the unrelenting effects of old age too.

 

[blueman335]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

Have you tried any sub 7.5k, unpotted A2 neck pickups? Honestly the difference between a wax potted A2 neck pickup and an unpotted one is night and day. Plus, the low wind balances out the mids from A2 and adds treble.
As far as A3 is concerned, it does have more treble, but it's chimier instead of singing like A2. I like A2 for the same reason I prefer hearing Aretha Franklin Sing to a professional piano player.

No, you're not crazy. You're playing thru different guitars, different equipment, and probably different music than I do. I've been through many PU's in my years and after a consistent disappointment in A2's, I hope you'll understand that I don't have a burning desire to spend the money on a "sub 7.5K unpotted A2 neck PU." Don't take this personally. Maybe that would be the magic tone, but I've been let down so many times before with A2's, I'm pretty skeptical. Maybe A2's are too subtle & understated for me.

Yeah, A3's have a bit of chime to them, and I think that's great in a neck PU. Gives an open, clear tone; very usable. And in the bridge, the chime would "pop" that bubble of A2 compression & lack of treble. As for the Aretha-piano thing: I'll take a good boogie-woogie piano man any day. Tickle them ivories baby.

 

[blueman335]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

I I believe I have found the right neck pickup in an uncovered seth lover with a magnet change to an A5. Sounds very nice in this guitar. Very bell like with a pretty tight bottom. I was really surprised how much differece the magnet change made. Brought this pickup right into where I wanted it to be...Now I have some more work to do on the bridge pickup. Now it has a seth with an A2 and it is WAY too bright. I had an alnico pro in it for a while and that was better. My next plan of action is to put an A8 in the seth. If that is still too bright, then maybe a custom with an A8...My point in the rambling is that you really have to try the combination in your guitar that might be best and then work from there. ...Don't forget that string selection can really change the tone of a guitar.

Keith...all this from a newbie? Great post. Took me a while to figure this stuff out. Stick around.

Something about A5's in a neck PU. Just seems to give that needed clarity.

I put an A8 in a PGB, and that was an improvement. Kept the mids, but also gave it more output, a tighter low end, and some bite. If that's still too bright for your Seth, try a 250K pot or two.

This forum is all about being a do-it-yourselfers, and you already know that the guitar, PU's, and magnets the manufacturer happened to put together are not sacred, and often need some finishing touches to get the sound you want. One-size-fits-all isn't going to please everybody. We get guys on here who have the attitude that they "shouldn't have to change anything on my guitar besides the strings." And they're right, they don't have to; only if they want to get the best possible tones.

String gauge does change tone, but to me there's an overriding factor of being able to bend strings. I need 9's to do the frequent & extreme bends and vibrato I do (Peter Green style), so going up a gauge is not an option for me.

 

[uOpt]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

i had that problem with an overly bassy neck pup too in my LP. I had an A2P in the bridge and a '57 classic in the neck. I lived the tone from the '57, but HATED the sound cuz when i got the bridge A2P sounding good, the '57 would sound dark, muddy and bassy. So I bought the A2P neck since its sound is matched to be paired with the bridge A2P and I love it. would another option would be to use a pup with an A5 mag in the neck, such as the A2P in the bridge and maybe like a '59 in the bass?

No, a 59n is the worst when it comes to an already woofy Les Paul or Strat.

Try the APH1 bridge with A5 in the neck, or a screamin' demon or something else with half hex poles.

As I said earlier, boutique, unpotted, calibrated magnet A2 neck pickups are a different matter than regular A2 neck pickups.

 

[uOpt]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

Interesting observation. It's been documented that people lose high frequency hearing when they have hearing damage. Perhaps playing in front of a loud amp for too long with no protection is the cause of your dislike of alnico II.

No way. You lose hearing first above 15 KHz, then above 12 KHz.

Guitars are having their resonance peak at 7 KHz max and it goes down with 6 db/octave from there.

You generally don't have guitar frequencies affected by hearing loss due to old age.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

No way. You lose hearing first above 15 KHz, then above 12 KHz.

Guitars are having their resonance peak at 7 KHz max and it goes down with 6 db/octave from there.

You generally don't have guitar frequencies affected by hearing loss due to old age.

go ahead and ruin' our "blueman's hearing loss" fun....

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

No way. You lose hearing first above 15 KHz, then above 12 KHz.

Guitars are having their resonance peak at 7 KHz max and it goes down with 6 db/octave from there.

You generally don't have guitar frequencies affected by hearing loss due to old age.

Riddle me this: Why then, when playing back a recording (mine own, mind you) and manipulating the EQ above 10k is there a difference?

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, I'm genuinely interested in knowing. :smoker:

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

BTW, just a "standard" electric guitar track. No fancy effects, just a semi hollow into an amp through the mic.

 

[uOpt]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

Riddle me this: Why then, when playing back a recording (mine own, mind you) and manipulating the EQ above 10k is there a difference?

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, I'm genuinely interested in knowing. :smoker:

The amp and effects will add flavor above the resonance frequency of the pickup. But the A2 versus A5 inside the pickup should still be capped, aka the difference in treble from A5 is high-mids up to 7 KHz.

Also, your EQ has a non-vertical filter shape, at 6 db/octave you can still cut into lower frequencies quite a bit when you mess with the 10 KHz knob, and you might even have 3 db/octave. Remember that 5 KHz is only a single octave away from 10 KHz, so if you lower 10 MHz by 18 db with a 6 db/octave filter then you still lower 5 KHz by 12 db.

Either that, or I'm full of it I would mind looking at this with a real spectrum analyzer software but real life is calling me to ski this weekend.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: AlNiCo 5 vs. AlNiCo 2

:hijacked: