Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Search as hard as i can . . .

. . . for the life of me, i can not find a semi decent explanation / comparison between the general tonal characteristics of an Alnico 8 and Ceramic magnet when it comes to pick ups.

Can someone please help out ?

Who will the pick up differ, by changing one magnet for the other ?
In other words, what does the one magnet offer, or lack, that the other can or can not offer ?
Why would you use the one, over the other ?

Thank you very much to all !

 

[Demanic]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

Ceramics are more sizzly on top and have a more scooped bottom. A8's have plenty of top and bottom, but the bottom is much thicker, with more low mids.
At least this has been my experience with them.
To my ear, the added low mids make the A8 seem louder.

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[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

Ceramics are more sizzly on top and have a more scooped bottom. A8's have plenty of top and bottom, but the bottom is much thicker, with more low mids.
At least this has been my experience with them.
To my ear, the added low mids make the A8 seem louder.

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Great info - thanks for the quick reply.
Would you say an A8 is top heavy ? . . . ie. too much top end for some ?

 

[Demanic]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

I wouldn't. I would say A8 is Goldilocks on the top end.

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[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

I wouldn't. I would say A8 is Goldilocks on the top end.

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- :fing2:

 

[Demanic]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

I have an Alternative 8 in the bridge of my Ibanez RG. It's a mahogany body with a string through body hardtail bridge. It is probably one of the loudest, heaviest sounding guitars that I have. Even compared to my Ibanez V-BLADE which is a neck thru with a string through hardtail bridge and an X2N bridge pickup.

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[vinnie1971]

Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

Alnico 8 is like alnico 2 on steroids with a bit more sparkle on the top end and a lot of grunt.It depends on the wind. They work best with vintage wind between 7.5k and 8.5k where they give a huge boost to the inductance. I’m a fan. I like alnico 8 a lot.

Here’s a demo of my attempt at making super 70s clones based on low output humbuckers that were very close to super 58s with alnico 3 magnets. I replaced them with oversized roughcast alnico 8. Tonally they are not massively different to super distortions with a brighter PAF quality but all the grunt.

This will give you an idea of how they sound.

I may do a compare against my super distortion / PAF pro set and my El Maya special Maxons ( jury is out whether they’re late super 70s or early super 80s due to their use of oversized ceramics mags)

https://youtu.be/e2O-x3a5mrM


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[Joey Voltage]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

A8 is kind of the Goldilocks magnet in general especially for high output, but the wind has to be right to get the most out of them otherwise you can end up with too much squak in the mids.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

A8 is kind of the Goldilocks magnet in general especially for high output, but the wind has to be right to get the most out of them otherwise you can end up with too much squak in the mids.

Which may, or may not, be a bad thing. Especially since the squawk tends to be in the low mids.

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[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

Ceramic magnets have a lower inductance since they are not metallic. Alnico has a higher inductance due to the iron content (technically ferrite magnets are made from iron oxide)

So to generalize, alnico will increase the inductance a bit and sound a bit warmer than a ceramic in the same pickup.

But it all depends on the pickup


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[Nagisa]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

All of what others said, but also the negatives:

Ceramic: often thought to sound “sterile” or to lack an organic sound. It is generally the most “stable” sounding magnet, which is great for high gain but often not great for cleans or (IMO) crunch compared to alnico

A8: Can get “clangy” like a jarring metallic sound. Some pickups are better than others with it, and height adjustments help.
A bit stiffer than other alnico magnets.

In general I would prefer an a8 bridge pickup if I can avoid the clang. Some people report no problems. Also some people say they love the ceramic sound. I think tube amps are actually more forgiving than modelers when it comes to magnets but that is my own observation and not a proven thing

 

[Adieu]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

I have an Alternative 8 in the bridge of my Ibanez RG. It's a mahogany body with a string through body hardtail bridge. It is probably one of the loudest, heaviest sounding guitars that I have. Even compared to my Ibanez V-BLADE which is a neck thru with a string through hardtail bridge and an X2N bridge pickup.

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Alt 8 has a crapton of wire, one of the highest resistance pups out there.

It's not exactly representative.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

Ceramic magnets have a lower inductance since they are not metallic. Alnico has a higher inductance due to the iron content (technically ferrite magnets are made from iron oxide)

So to generalize, alnico will increase the inductance a bit and sound a bit warmer than a ceramic in the same pickup.

But it all depends on the pickup


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That leads to DiMarzio’s VV patent by increasing the inductance by other means. They use this to great extent on their ceramic models which is why most of them are pretty atypical sounding for ceramic or at the very least “sweetened up” a bit by the increased inductance.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

That leads to DiMarzio’s VV patent by increasing the inductance by other means. They use this to great extent on their ceramic models which is why most of them are pretty atypical sounding for ceramic or at the very least “sweetened up” a bit by the increased inductance.

I’m pretty sure they use it on alnico pickups too.

They first started that with the 20th Anniversary PAF. That also used the “air gap” idea and custom slugs shaped like screws.

I spent many hours stuffing those little iron slugs into bobbins when I worked there! They would turn my fingers black.

The cool thing about increasing the inductance with steel/iron is you can use less turns of wire and still get a full tone. But without the typical high end loss.


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[Chistopher]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

Alt 8 has a crapton of wire, one of the highest resistance pups out there.

It's not exactly representative.

Resistance isn't exactly representative. Try an LX500XL if you font believe me.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

Resistance isn't exactly representative. Try an LX500XL if you font believe me.

You mean the Bill Lawrence that Seymour ripped off and called Dimebucker?

I had one in a Charvel Avenger (Vee), what about it?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

You mean the Bill Lawrence that Seymour ripped off and called Dimebucker?

I had one in a Charvel Avenger (Vee), what about it?

The DCR doesn't match how it "should" sound. There is more to the tone of a pickup than DCR and inductance. The resistance of a pup is no way to measure either tone or output.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

I swapped out the ceramics in a Duncan Distortion set for double thick A8s. The pickups sound warmer and fatter now, and sweeter in the highs. Still loud as hell, though; I'd actually hoped for a little less output from these.

For my taste it was a positive change in this guitar (late '70s Greco LP Custom). The DDs were too sizzly for me and this tamed them a bit that while still leaving plenty of bite, with some more low-mid fullness but not extra nasal mids.

They seem to have a little more alnico "bounce" in the feel, too, but I concur with others that the A8 has a stiffer feel than other alnicos. Maybe just due to the strength.

Has anybody here experimented with degaussed A8s?

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

I’m pretty sure they use it on alnico pickups too.

They first started that with the 20th Anniversary PAF. That also used the “air gap” idea and custom slugs shaped like screws.

I spent many hours stuffing those little iron slugs into bobbins when I worked there! They would turn my fingers black.

The cool thing about increasing the inductance with steel/iron is you can use less turns of wire and still get a full tone. But without the typical high end loss.


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Oh they absolutely do, but they have been utilizing it more and more for their higher powered ceramic models lately, and what you also just described is exactly how they have been designing their newer pickups. Not only do turns get to be reduced, but it opens up the freedom to use thicker wire gauges as well, which will also help frequency response and result in a less damped resonance frequency. Definitely a neat trick anyone could try if they were careful enough. I think the slugs are still beefier than their screws throughout the bobbin, but are just lathed on the bottom near where they would normally contact the magnet. It’s been a while since I’ve looked thought.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Alnico 8 vs. Ceramic.

I have an Alternative 8 in the bridge of my Ibanez RG. It's a mahogany body with a string through body hardtail bridge. It is probably one of the loudest, heaviest sounding guitars that I have. Even compared to my Ibanez V-BLADE which is a neck thru with a string through hardtail bridge and an X2N bridge pickup.

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. . . good to know ! Sounds promising !